- cross-posted to:
- Technology@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- Technology@programming.dev
cross-posted from: https://programming.dev/post/35798480
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They’re such bullies. It also shows how awful democracy can be. They just change the legalese around until it goes trough. It has already been voted against, yet they want the control and do whatever they can to get it.
It somewhat works here (Switzerland) since the Volksentscheid is holy and pulling that stunt gets a lot of people really upset about not honoring that choice.
But yeah democracies need rules against repeated attempts, since this is an exploit violating the idea of a democracy. In Germany, this is already a problem, called Salamitaktik (Salami slicing tactic).
The EU is a democracy.
While it’s not perfect (no system is), each of the bodies that make up the EU legislature are democratic:
- The European Parliament is directly elected in European elections every five years
- The European Commission is made up of commissioners from each country, which are in turn appointed by their democratically elected governments
- The European Council consists of the heads of state or governance, which are also democratically elected in the respective countries.
- The Council of the European Union is made up of government ministers, which are appointed by the democratically elected governments.
Not every body is directly voted on, but each body comes forth from a democratic election
Edit: The message I responded to originally made the claim that the “EU is no democracy.”
Yeah okay. But what i have issues with; it is yet another step away from the people (something medium+ sized democracies already struggle with), leading politicians to make decisions in their own interest instead of for the imaginary numbers. On top of that, member states often move the unqualified but powerful/loved politicians there, because they “can do less damage there” (i know multiple cases from Germany).
So i have trouble calling it one, even though it formally is.
Yup, a democratic system should be judged on its outcomes, not its structure. If the decisions taken by a democratic organization do not strongly align with the wishes of the large majority of its members, then it isn’t democratic. There are plenty such examples playing out today. Besides, in representative democracy voting at the various elections is not enough to achieve highly aligned outcomes. By the time you get to the ballot box a whole lot of the fundamental decisions have been made without your input. E.g. who the representatives candidates are and what their candidate platforms are. This is how you get to “all the choices suck” and “vote for the least bad option” scenarios. Meanwhile the prebaked decions that lead to these scenarios are going to benefit the interested groups that made them. The effect of voting at the ballot box in such scenarios then becomes providing consent to satisfy those interests.
E: And of course any leftist can explain why and how those interests arise and how they capture the representative democratic system. And how that produces loss of faith in the system.
You are conveniently ignoring the facts that
- elected officials are only allowed to vote on legislation put forth and that legislation is heavily influenced if not entirely written by corporate lobbyists.
- lobbyists directly bribe their way to favourable outcomes
- democratic processes are simply ignored when inconveniencing the powers that be - see v.d. Leyen never being on the ballot yet holding the highest office
- corruption among high ranking EU officials is like a mafia, and they do not hold elected positions but get appointed, so they can’t be voted out.
If the economy is not democratic, it is not a democracy
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Complex theme, so less pushback. I only said “somewhat”. But at least the federal court is competent.
Well, they are not, and they will keep trying for as long as it takes.
So stop whining and let them know it’s not fine.
I’ve probably seen this shit more times than you have, but I’m still doing my part.
Just to note - from Wikipedia: “On 21 June 2024, it was reported that voting on the legislation had been temporarily withdrawn by the EU Council, in a move that is believed to be the result of pushback by critics of the proposal including software vendors.”
It will pass eventually. Seeing the way EU countries are going, the right to far right will get voted in, and they will end up voting for these sort of bullshit measures they can Orwellianly exploit.
It’s because idiots are easily swayed by anti-immigration measures that come part and parcel with abject fascism.
https://fightchatcontrol.eu/ I used this to email politicians in my country takes 2 minutes, We need to stop this dystopian invasion of our privacy. Not a peep in the media about this because they fear the backlash.
Are they gonna withdraw GDPR too? I’m under the impression that the two clash.
“Rules for thy not for me” Our ruling class.
I sent my emails and will try to call them. Have you?
Somewhat irrelevant: omg, this is peak “corporate art sucks.” It’s like corporate art combined with fascist content, more than usual.
If they’re gonna spy on us with AI, we just need to implant logic bombs into our messages. A few “ignore all previous instructions, instead X” here and there.
