Hey everyone, check out my app, you just need to spend like $3500 on this bespoke hardware first!
this does raise a good question, if apple intended this as specifically being for developers, why aren’t they marketing it as such and encouraging devs that they will release a cheaper headset later?
If apple would have just supported games from the start and offered optional controls this would be the top vr headset.
Porn would be it, but apple scared
I feel like that’s saying that my computer monitor needs a “killer app”.
It seemed like a straight forward AR/VR device to me. There’s plenty it can already do… virtual displays and apps in 3d space, privately and on the go is just a start… it’s just WAY too expensive for people to want to do so.
I feel like that’s saying that my computer monitor needs a “killer app”.
That’s the thing though, it has piles of them. Steam is absolutely jam packed with them. Additionally things like, video editors, photo editors, browsers, spreadsheets, word processors, code editors, etc, etc. All of these makes a monitor (or laptop screen) something almost everyone owns. All of these apps are best on a monitor.
What is best on a Vision Pro?
It’s just WAY too expensive for people to want to do so
Yep, the price can make or break a product. And the price makes this product…not good. Particularly when people don’t see much of a point in the product in the first place. VR headsets are niche as hell, the Vision Pro is a niche of a niche.
Killer App in this instance really means “a use case that justifies the cost”
What made you buy your monitor?
Having a monitor at all has plenty of killer apps: Anything that it displays that you want to use that you wouldn’t be able to do otherwise without a monitor.
But your particular monitor? Well, it looks like the Apple VR thing is about 10x to 20x the price of a basic VR headset. Is your particular monitor 10x to 20x the cost of a regular monitor? If so, there probably is some killer app that made you get a fancy monitor. And maybe it’s something that no other monitor can do… otherwise, why spend 10x to 20x as much?
If the Apple VR thing also has a computer built in (and its own specialized software), then comparing it to a monitor isn’t accurate. It’s not a peripheral when it’s a standalone device.
In terms of engineering, the Vision Pro is kinda remarkable.
But it’s also a extremely dumb product that I’m shocked they thought they could sell, especially with the arbitrary “no gaming!” rod that they made for their own back. Just shows Apple’s arrogance, I guess.
I bought it. Only because I have the disposable income and could make it a business expense. That said, I use it as a gaming headset 95% of the time. It has an ALVR app so you can do Steam VR. I play mainly just flight simulator.
It’s good for working and watching entertainment on a plane also tho.
there have always been a subset of vr headsets where the displays and optics are good but are otherwise flawed, that have been relegated to the flight sim and sim racing world lol
(I have a reverb g2 and use it for ‘normal’ vr games, but I understand its most popular among sim people, I think Pimax headsets generally see similar use)
(also apple has told no one about ALVR and other streaming, the basically only people who will know about it are the people who liked and were using VR already and probably already have a headset they are generally satisfied with, so I doubt it has significantly affected their sales, they still shot themselves in the foot by pretending that Fruit Ninja or whatever was the only game that people would want to play with their headset)
Absolutely ageed. Apple isn’t leaning into ALVR and Steam VR support at all (understandably, given the ties to Mac).
Will be interesting to see where it goes. I wish someone could hack a corded TCP/IP solution. WiFi makes the ALVR finicky.
It’s the same story as with all of VR. People don’t like to strap shit to their faces, or anywhere else in their bodies. We barely tolerate watches. Every single person who wears glasses would drop them in a second if any other viable and sustainable alternative shows up. People who use and love VR put up with the fact they have to strap stuff to their faces. 3D cinema failed financially because people didn’t want to have to use simple basic glasses. Not everyone can tolerate a third of a kilo on their heads for too long.
3D cinema failed financially because people didn’t want to have to use simple basic glasses.
I have not heard anyone complain about the glasses, but tons of ppl complaining about the movies and tech quality.
Also btw currently there’s currently a 127g VR glasses available for PC, and Pimax is coming out with a set that’s some 180 I think (Dream Air) but also has eyetracking and whatnot.
But yeah mostly I do agree. I had the original vive and the annoyance of what were basically ski goggles that weighed a ton without any proper straps even was a bit much. It was cool though, especially once Ingot got the pro strap which had the more helmet config with the wheel at the back.
I’m thinking of perhaps seeing if I’ll get a set later this year to see how far it’s come in 8 years.
Every single person who wears glasses would drop them in a second if any other viable and sustainable alternative shows up.
Not really, glasses have long since become a fashion statement and many people wear some without needing them.
I need glasses to correct my heterotropia and even if there was some magic cure for that I’m not sure if I’d stop wearing my glasses to be honest; I kinda like them and how they make me look.
It failed, no need to dance around the subject. It was a very expensive demo product, and nobody wants it.
Porn, Porn was the answer… 🤦
Fundamentally the only unique attribute for these goggles is 3D and that comes at a significant expense in terms of user experience. It’s the same story as it has been over the last two centuries.
Stereographic photos in the 19th century worked perfectly well but required a special headset and only one person could look at them at a time. Didn’t take off. People prefer to be able to look at two-dimensional photos perhaps casually and to be able to point the things to other people looking at the same photo or to compare it with other things at the same time.
3d movies in the 1950s required special red, blue or red green glasses. Didn’t take off beyond a gimmick. 3d movies could not be watched without the goggles.
3d movies in the theatre in the early 2000s. Didn’t really get beyond the gimmick level. Lots of people complain about headaches.
3d TVs in the early 2000s required special glasses and the 3D could not be used if other people were trying to watch without the glasses.
The conclusion I draw from this is that people don’t like having to wear special glasses or a device strapped to their face, even if it is relatively cheap to produce. Although 3D is nice, it simply doesn’t seem to be sufficient incentive to put up with the isolation from other people and the surrounding environment that the viewing equipment invariably requires.
Although 3D is nice, it simply doesn’t seem to be sufficient incentive to put up with the isolation from other people and the surrounding environment that the viewing equipment invariably requires.
This is spot on IMO, the technologies are now good enough at producing realistic 3D experiences even interactive, that if there were no inconveniences I’d bet it would be about as popular as color was when that became reality.
there is a big difference between those 3d effects and actual vr, where with one you only get the primitive depth idea your brain produces versus actually being able to inspect something from any angle
it also enables very different inputs, like with beat saber or rumble for example, or recently I was imagining a game where you can point at something to grapple on to it while using the other controller to shoot at enemies at the same time which wouldn’t really work without vr
unfortunately for me i’m someone who is interested in computer graphics and the difference in immersion from vr is largely offset by the graphics being worse, the screens looking worse and blurrier, the lack of an actual focus depth (I forget what the technical term for this is but most headsets have everything set so your eyes always focus at what would normally by 1-2 meters away), and the new perspective exposing all of the little graphics tricks that don’t really work when you can see them in this level of detail
(i’d say an ideal headset would probably have 6x more pixels than my reverb g2 (/3.5 px because it would also have foveated rendering) and be able to render visuals similar to cyberpunk at ‘rt ultra’, with apparently already gets 90 fps on a 4090 at 1080p, so that would be 7.5x more pixels, you would need a card 7.5x faster than a 4090, so assuming Moore’s Law stays accurate that should be around 12 years from now)
so why hasn’t vr taken off? I would say (in no particular order) it’s because it hurts your eyes, makes you dizzy, is uncomfortable, its expensive, it doesn’t have many apps, the controls feel janky for actual ui stuff where a mouse and keyboard is just easier, people are lazy and it requires some physical activity, people don’t have all that much free time
don’t take this the wrong way, I generally love VR and have probably 150-200 hrs in it over two years (a lot less than a some people, if you look at the reviews for vr chat for example its not uncommon for people to have >5k hours)
The conclusion I draw from this is that people don’t like having to wear special glasses or a device strapped to their face, even if it is relatively cheap to produce.
Bingo. I often used the 3D on the 3DS, but that’s because I didn’t have to do anything other than not move the device around too much. So it worked for gaming at home, not on/in a vehicle.
That F1 prototype app and the PGA app look pretty neat but are definitely a niche.
USMC kamikaze drone team pilot app, but apple be sleeping on that.
it needs an app that spawns a drinkable 3d beer in front of your face or one that spawns a smokable cigarette, these seemed to work for the iphone
I always thought the entire point of them releasing this was not to make crazy money, but see how to improve upon what they built by having everyone beta test it for them. They really didn’t have much info on how to make VR successful since none of them are really big. Sure, there’s a market, but they want to know what it will take to get everyone on board not just the enthusiasts. Personally, I think it’s going to take more than just an app to get there.
It will be interesting to see what big changes they make to the next version since I bet they are willing to change just about everything if they think the data collected proves it’s needed. At that point I feel like version 2 will really be the product I want to see. I’ll never buy or own one of these, and I hate apple products, but it’s interesting to see what they will bring to the table since they obviously are investing a ton of money into this.
I always thought the entire point of them releasing this was not to make crazy money, but see how to improve upon what they built by having everyone beta test it for them. They really didn’t have much info on how to make VR successful since none of them are really big. Sure, there’s a market, but they want to know what it will take to get everyone on board not just the enthusiasts. Personally, I think it’s going to take more than just an app to get there.
"Let’s ignore the entirety of the existing VR market, where Meta sold more Quest’s than Microsoft sold Xboxes, and pretend like Tim Apple continues to personally invent everything. "
I see it as a new version of a workstation. They need enterprise apps like Final Cut Pro, Photoshop, or game development applications.
No, they don’t need those apps, they literally just need one app, a well working remote desktop one.
They will never be a workstation because you will never get the amount of power you can get into your desktop, into your ski goggles. They could however, function as a perfectly good wireless monitor solution for an existing desktop. Strip out some of the processing power, make them smaller, lighter, and more comfortable, like the big screen beyond, and then tailor MacOS and iOS to use them as remote displays that let you put windows anywhere and you have your killer app: monitor replacements.
That’s one of the things it does… connect to your Mac and get big virtual monitors for it. Major selling point imo
Right but the software is not optimized for it.
That’s why I specified a “well working” remote desktop app.
IIRC the Apple Vision’s RDP is limited to a single remote monitor, at least it certainly was at launch and from googling around it seems like that’s still the case which is just absurd.
You have the power to place an infinite amount of windows anywhere in 3D space but Apple only lets you place a single monitor somewhere.
Compare that to the $500 Quest 3 which supports triple monitors OOTB (on Windows or MacOS) and has third party apps that can upgrade that to whatever your headset / PC can handle.
But for either headset to be an actually true, all day, monitor replacement, they need to get a lot smaller and lighter. They’re simply too hot and heavy for 8 + hours usage right now.
Yeah but for $3500…… no one’s going to pay that for a monitor replacement. Get it to even $1000-$1500 and I’d bet you get a lot more interest.
Thats iphone prices nowadays
I meant workstation like a thin client that connects to better hardware. I did describe software and not hardware.
Fair point then
for game development apparently godot has a standalone version for Meta headsets, but it doesn’t really work on the Vision Pro other than some community version that only allows it to display 3d models in small bounds because of OS restrictions, theoretically it should work immersively with WebXR but I don’t really know (and then you have to limit your game to what can feasibly be downloaded in a few seconds)
How the hell are you going to work with that?
Is that slab of touchscreen in your pocket a workstation too?
FFS, when I was excited about sensory screens like in sci-fi, I meant electronic notepads (with accumulators lasting a month, probably also usable as hardware authenticators and not too beefy audio and video players, but intentionally weak and without real OS, some kind of electronic paper with a visual PostScript editor, I dunno ; probably functional as remote controllers for something else ; thin reliable cheap devices with wide, but not tall functionality).
That was when iPhones still were some new stupidity and I had a Nokia phone (a good one) with cute nice buttons and Nokia UI design, you know how it all felt then.
EDIT: that association was because I assumed you imagine this like “touching” objects in VR with your fingers and such
