Example: I believe that IP is a direct contradiction of nature, sacrificing the advancement of humanity and the world for selfish gain, and therefore is sinful.

Edit: pls do not downvote the comments this is a constructive discussion

Edit2: IP= intellectal property

Edit3: sort by controversal

  • Paper_Phrog@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    Veganism. It’s interesting to see how even seemingly very moral people throw logic out the door when the topic turns to not killing animals.

    • tatterdemalion@programming.dev
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      12 days ago

      Is your belief based on an animal’s capacity for consciousness? If so do you think all animals, regardless of their intelligence, deserve the right to not be eaten? Where would you draw the line?

      • Paper_Phrog@lemmy.world
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        12 days ago

        Hi there, good question. For me there’s no morals tied to the level of consciousness. That allows for cherry picking.

        I apply the very simple principe “don’t do to other living beings what you would not want to be done to you”.

          • Paper_Phrog@lemmy.world
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            11 days ago

            This is a common philosophical counter question I hear. While completely valid in its core, it distracts from the real problem. Have you considered the fact that we need food to survive? I’d rather choose the food (based on current research that plants don’t feel pain as animala do) that seems to cause the least harm.

            Meat or animal products of any kind don’t fulfill that criterium.

            Then we have the fact that it contributes negatively to our planet and the production takes a huge toll on both plants AND humans alike. It simply isn’t efficient in any way.

            So this really isn’t an argument worth discussing.

            If you consider all this, there’s really only one logical choice based on the morals we decide on as a society. Which is currently seriously hypocritical.

            • tatterdemalion@programming.dev
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              11 days ago

              I’m not making a larger claim here, I’m just asking the vegetarians to explain the logic of their belief.

              It sounds like now you’re saying that you want to reduce pain rather than the killing of intelligent/conscious life.

              In that case would you be OK with slaughterhouses if they treated the animals humanely and killed them as quickly as possible before they could feel significant pain?

              • Paper_Phrog@lemmy.world
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                10 days ago

                No, I am against all killing and intentionally inflicting of pain. I don’t mind you trying to poke holes in (my) logics at all by the way. Nothing in life is foolproof, otherwise philosophy wouldn’t exist.

            • tatterdemalion@programming.dev
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              11 days ago

              Did you read the comment I replied to?

              For me there’s no morals tied to the level of consciousness. That allows for cherry picking.

              • desinetizen@lemm.ee
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                11 days ago

                They’re talking about level of consciousness when it’s established that the entity in question has any consciousness at all. It doesn’t mean considering those with no consciousness, like plants or rocks. (I don’t agree with it though, levels are worth considering.)

    • dogs0n@sh.itjust.works
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      12 days ago

      It’s interesting to me in the reverse, because it’s sort of how the food chain works, granted I do hate seeing the inhumane conditions in which a lot of animals for food are kept (if we were still cavemen it seems more ok than now because it’d be more of a fair match between us and our prey).

      Also plants feel pain too (please also kill them humanely).

      • petrol_sniff_king@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        12 days ago

        because it’s sort of how the food chain works,

        If you’ll notice, it’s not very often a vegan advocates for cheetahs to stop eating antelope.

      • Paper_Phrog@lemmy.world
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        12 days ago

        The food chain hasn’t really been a thing for us in a long time now and you know it. We’ve surpassed the traditional food chain.

        P.S. I kill my plans more humanely than any animal will ever be slaughtered.

      • desinetizen@lemm.ee
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        11 days ago

        Anyone who has attended a single biology class on plants can tell that they can’t feel anything. You need a brain and pain receptors, plants lack both. But such obvious lies are perpetuated so you can keep abusing animals guilt-free.

    • Dr. Moose@lemmy.world
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      12 days ago

      Especially when it’s “foodies” that pretend to have this enormous respect for food. Shouldn’t these people be on the bleeding edge of things?

      • desinetizen@lemm.ee
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        11 days ago

        That’s like saying morals and religion have always gone hand in hand. Can non-religious not have morals?

        • SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world
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          11 days ago

          People with strong food philosophies and beliefs act in a manner similar to religious zealots. They preach, condemn those who don’t believe, have food “sins”, are closed minded, etc.

          • desinetizen@lemm.ee
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            11 days ago

            Being vegan is about not abusing animals. One might call it an ethical philosophy or principle. It’s not a “food philosophy”.

    • Angry_Autist (he/him)@lemmy.world
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      12 days ago

      Hmmm, I wonder why people dedicated to forcing 95% of the population into an unwanted lifestyle change ever receive pushback at all? I mean it’s completely reasonable to radically alter the diet that has supported humanity since before talking was invented but I’m sure you have a ton of nifty ideas on how to make lentils almost taste like chicken

      • Paper_Phrog@lemmy.world
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        12 days ago

        Your username suits you at least.

        Quite a typical response because no one is forcing you to do or change anything. It’s still very much a choice. Even if it actively negatively contributes to both animal welfare and the earth existence.

        You can debate how far one should go in veganism, but I think it’s hard to defend the stance that there should be NO change of course in the current (intensive) animal factory farming scene. There really are no winners and humans don’t realize how the system also makes life worse for them in the long run.

        You can deny it, and try to use strawmen reasoning to the debate, but realize it makes you seem uneducated on the matter.

        That being said, you do you, I won’t change your stance and you won’t changeine. I simply gave my opinion in this thread.

        • Angry_Autist (he/him)@lemmy.world
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          12 days ago

          We made an unspoken promise to the animals we domesticated: If you provide for me and my family, I will ensure your line never fades from this world

          It is unethical to abandon that promise, and the extinction of a species may be the single greatest wrong mankind can commit.

          If you compare the health of wild animals to domestically cared for animals, you will obviously see that domesticated animals are healthier and have greater opportunities for enrichment and happiness under human care.

          Yes there are vile humans who torture and keep animals in miserable conditions, and they should pay consequences for their cruelties and greed

          Don’t you dare paint every farmer with that same corporate battery farm brush.

          I am not here to change your stance, I’m here to mitigate the dangerous attitudes your poorly considered stance engenders in others.

          • Miphera@lemmy.world
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            12 days ago

            We made an unspoken promise to the animals we domesticated: If you provide for me and my family, I will ensure your line never fades from this world

            It is unethical to abandon that promise, and the extinction of a species may be the single greatest wrong mankind can commit.

            Dozens of species go extinct every single day, in large parts due to deforestation for animal agriculture. Acting like keeping a handful of species we eat from extinction is somehow noble is silly by contrast. The concept of a species is a human construct in the first place, individual animals don’t care that their species (which isn’t even natural, we bred them like this) is kept going.

            If you compare the health of wild animals to domestically cared for animals, you will obviously see that domesticated animals are healthier and have greater opportunities for enrichment and happiness under human care.

            It’s not about if those animals live under animal agriculture or in the wild. The animals in the wild already exist, the ones in captivity wouldn’t exist at all, if we didn’t breed them.

            Yes there are vile humans who torture and keep animals in miserable conditions, and they should pay consequences for their cruelties and greed

            Don’t you dare paint every farmer with that same corporate battery farm brush.

            Most animal meat nowadays comes from factory farms. Worldwide it is roughly 90%, in the US it is 99%.

          • Paper_Phrog@lemmy.world
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            11 days ago

            I am not fully going to reply to your statement, because the user below did so very clearly already.

            Just remember, none of these conversations are centered around YOU or your situation. It’s about the planet as a whole.

            Without trying to insult you, it sounds like cognitive dissonance is at play here.

            • Angry_Autist (he/him)@lemmy.world
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              11 days ago

              And I’d like you to quote the place where I said this was ‘my’ situation.

              What a pathetically transparent attempt to slide the conversation.

              • Paper_Phrog@lemmy.world
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                10 days ago

                You might not literally have said so, but you replied with a very defensive stance about your situation, unsolicited. This implicitly made it about yourself.

                You sound quite upset about this, but there’s no need to. I am just an internet stranger.

                Anyway, have a pleasant day!