The US have a shitstorm coming. That’s what you get when you let a toddler play with the control knobs of the country.
Another very interesting point is how China made themselves so powerful. Anything with electronics needs some sort of resource from China. China is a very big and powerful player.
We should wonder if we want t be this dependant on one country for all our tech needs. I think the answer is no…
This is all just Japan from the 80s all over again. There are a bunch of movies from the period with Japan as the bogeyman. The peak probably being the backstory of Die Hard.
The key difference this time is the USA was paying for Japan’s defense, had a massive military base, etc. China doesn’t have that problem, so they can counter American demands with their own demands.
Interestingly, look at interviews with Trump from the 80s, he’ll talk about Japan almost with the same language that he uses for China now. The most famous was probably an appearance of Trump on Oprah.
That name of the building is the backstory I was referring to. That was a headnod to what was actually happening with Japanese investors moving in and buying up a lot of American real estate. I think that’s when a Japanese group bought the Plaza hotel in NYC for example and when Sony bought a movie studio (renamed it Sony pictures, but I think it was CBS movie division).
Gung Ho, staring Michael Keaton, is another movie example.
For what its worth, CyberPunk 2077 is … an alt history that diverges from our own … at some point in the 1960s I think?
Like… the Soviet Union still exists. In 2077.
Point being: The ‘Japanese megacorps taking over much of the American economy’ fear of our own 1980s is very, very much a big part of the lore/universe.
Pondsmith published the first version of the lore in 1988 as the TTRPG ‘Cyberpunk’, originally set in 2013, and this kept getting added to and expanded with subsequent editions.
Arasaka is… well hopefully without spoiling too much, Arasaka corp is basically run by a Japanese fighter pilot ace who pretty much swore eternal vengeance on America after Japan got nuked and lost the war, and his idea of how to do this includes figuring out how to become immortal, so that he can continue to run a megacorp that ultimately usurps American sovereignty and turns the country into his neo-corpo-feudal subjects.
You can get almost all of that by playing through the Corpo intro character path and actually watching the informative slideshow thing in the elevator and on walls/screens in the … megalobby, so hopefully thats not too spoilery.
Also in Die Hard it is Nakatomi Plaza iirc, Nakatomi being the name of the fictional Japanese corp.
I remember in the 80s several National Lampoon covers that featured this concept. One had a tagline with something like “Welcome to America, a wholly owned subsidiary of the Honda Motor Company” or something like that. And then there is the slightly racist one in this image:
What’s funnier is that the Americans could have dropped Chinese raw materials if they had built a collaboration before tariffing China, but the current Government have only one tactic: try to bully everyone at once. They really did make their own mess.
The anti globalists were calling it 40 years ago and for some stupid reason it’s a freaking fascist who is destroying the system that the left was fighting against back then!
Even liberals have been saying that now in modern times. Isolationism is a prime Republican message for a reason.
The line must go up so lobbying+no spines has ensured we haven’t do anything about it. There have been are a couple rare earth mines here in the US but it hasn’t been profitable and has been heavily subsidized. We needed some other source ready before doing something like this and we don’t have it. So it’s just stupid.
We should wonder if we want t be this dependant on one country for all our tech needs. I think the answer is no…
It’s also by far the biggest market for those materials, and a massive scale industry there. The IRA did incentivize local supply chains for many materials, but the high ROI scarcity model in US, had many announced projects cancelled, and new administration’s love for fossil fuels and funding sources for tax cuts for the rich, threaten other projects. The reason projects were cancelled is that price, even after subsidy, would be horribly uncompetitive relative to China, and includes further uncompetitive processing industry requirements, that aren’t usually the same expertise as a mining operation.
trade dependence is bad
is something you can say only when global peace is impossible, but also when your country is the one that fully decides global peace or war. War is not a path for shared prosperity. Trade dependence can be very prosperous (PPP GDP is far more important measure than nominal). Markets usually function because sellers are not forced to hate buyers, instead of trying to usually be their friend.
Far crazier than OP high tech industry suicide, is food and apparel. 1930s Smoot-Harley tariffs didn’t just amplify great depression, they directly led to global famine. Farming bankruptcies and low global trade means planting less, if surplus can’t be sold anywhere. No one will import avocados or apparel this week, and that has a bigger short term impact on lives.
Yeah… I read yesterday they are testing flying cars to help with reducing commute times. Wow… flying cars… dreams from my childhood that sadly we didn’t make come true, but China is testing theirs.
(re-post because strangely, my first post showed up twice, as in duplicates, then I deleted it, and they both deleted. maybe my cache or lemm.ee issue. shrug)
Yeah… I read yesterday they are testing flying cars to help with reducing commute times. Wow… flying cars… dreams from my childhood that sadly we didn’t make come true, but China is testing theirs.
We’ve had flying cars since the 70s, they are called helicopters.
The issue with a flying car for general use, is one of maintenance and safety. If an older car breaks down, it causes a tailback. If a flying car breaks down, it could demolish a school. The higher standards required means higher costs. That means rich people only. The rich use helicopters in exactly that manner.
True, but they weren’t really used much as flying cars till later. I might be wrong on exactly when they moved from military to “rich transport to the race track”, however.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
The US have a shitstorm coming. That’s what you get when you let a toddler play with the control knobs of the country.
Another very interesting point is how China made themselves so powerful. Anything with electronics needs some sort of resource from China. China is a very big and powerful player.
We should wonder if we want t be this dependant on one country for all our tech needs. I think the answer is no…
This is all just Japan from the 80s all over again. There are a bunch of movies from the period with Japan as the bogeyman. The peak probably being the backstory of Die Hard.
The key difference this time is the USA was paying for Japan’s defense, had a massive military base, etc. China doesn’t have that problem, so they can counter American demands with their own demands.
Interestingly, look at interviews with Trump from the 80s, he’ll talk about Japan almost with the same language that he uses for China now. The most famous was probably an appearance of Trump on Oprah.
Can you elaborate on the Die Hard part? I recall the terrorist being German. The only reference to Japan, that I recall, was the name of the building.
That name of the building is the backstory I was referring to. That was a headnod to what was actually happening with Japanese investors moving in and buying up a lot of American real estate. I think that’s when a Japanese group bought the Plaza hotel in NYC for example and when Sony bought a movie studio (renamed it Sony pictures, but I think it was CBS movie division).
Gung Ho, staring Michael Keaton, is another movie example.
For what its worth, CyberPunk 2077 is … an alt history that diverges from our own … at some point in the 1960s I think?
Like… the Soviet Union still exists. In 2077.
Point being: The ‘Japanese megacorps taking over much of the American economy’ fear of our own 1980s is very, very much a big part of the lore/universe.
Pondsmith published the first version of the lore in 1988 as the TTRPG ‘Cyberpunk’, originally set in 2013, and this kept getting added to and expanded with subsequent editions.
Arasaka is… well hopefully without spoiling too much, Arasaka corp is basically run by a Japanese fighter pilot ace who pretty much swore eternal vengeance on America after Japan got nuked and lost the war, and his idea of how to do this includes figuring out how to become immortal, so that he can continue to run a megacorp that ultimately usurps American sovereignty and turns the country into his neo-corpo-feudal subjects.
You can get almost all of that by playing through the Corpo intro character path and actually watching the informative slideshow thing in the elevator and on walls/screens in the … megalobby, so hopefully thats not too spoilery.
Also in Die Hard it is Nakatomi Plaza iirc, Nakatomi being the name of the fictional Japanese corp.
Anyway woo random trivia.
Thanks for explaining, TIL!
I remember in the 80s several National Lampoon covers that featured this concept. One had a tagline with something like “Welcome to America, a wholly owned subsidiary of the Honda Motor Company” or something like that. And then there is the slightly racist one in this image:
What’s funnier is that the Americans could have dropped Chinese raw materials if they had built a collaboration before tariffing China, but the current Government have only one tactic: try to bully everyone at once. They really did make their own mess.
The anti globalists were calling it 40 years ago and for some stupid reason it’s a freaking fascist who is destroying the system that the left was fighting against back then!
Even liberals have been saying that now in modern times. Isolationism is a prime Republican message for a reason.
The line must go up so lobbying+no spines has ensured we haven’t do anything about it. There have been are a couple rare earth mines here in the US but it hasn’t been profitable and has been heavily subsidized. We needed some other source ready before doing something like this and we don’t have it. So it’s just stupid.
It’s also by far the biggest market for those materials, and a massive scale industry there. The IRA did incentivize local supply chains for many materials, but the high ROI scarcity model in US, had many announced projects cancelled, and new administration’s love for fossil fuels and funding sources for tax cuts for the rich, threaten other projects. The reason projects were cancelled is that price, even after subsidy, would be horribly uncompetitive relative to China, and includes further uncompetitive processing industry requirements, that aren’t usually the same expertise as a mining operation.
is something you can say only when global peace is impossible, but also when your country is the one that fully decides global peace or war. War is not a path for shared prosperity. Trade dependence can be very prosperous (PPP GDP is far more important measure than nominal). Markets usually function because sellers are not forced to hate buyers, instead of trying to usually be their friend.
Far crazier than OP high tech industry suicide, is food and apparel. 1930s Smoot-Harley tariffs didn’t just amplify great depression, they directly led to global famine. Farming bankruptcies and low global trade means planting less, if surplus can’t be sold anywhere. No one will import avocados or apparel this week, and that has a bigger short term impact on lives.
Yeah… I read yesterday they are testing flying cars to help with reducing commute times. Wow… flying cars… dreams from my childhood that sadly we didn’t make come true, but China is testing theirs.
(re-post because strangely, my first post showed up twice, as in duplicates, then I deleted it, and they both deleted. maybe my cache or lemm.ee issue. shrug)
Yeah… I read yesterday they are testing flying cars to help with reducing commute times. Wow… flying cars… dreams from my childhood that sadly we didn’t make come true, but China is testing theirs.
We’ve had flying cars since the 70s, they are called helicopters.
The issue with a flying car for general use, is one of maintenance and safety. If an older car breaks down, it causes a tailback. If a flying car breaks down, it could demolish a school. The higher standards required means higher costs. That means rich people only. The rich use helicopters in exactly that manner.
Uhh we’ve had helicopters since the 30s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter
True, but they weren’t really used much as flying cars till later. I might be wrong on exactly when they moved from military to “rich transport to the race track”, however.