Hey all - what’s your experience with refurb Lenovo laptops for Linux from companies/shops that specialize in this as a service? I’m looking at LinuxPusher.dk but am also curious about other EU-based shops. It seems like a good, affordable way to get a Linux machine if you’re a novice, like me (some experience with Ubuntu and Kubuntu about 10 years ago).
first off, “lenovo” is not the thing to get, it’s just a subset of those - thinkpads. and even then, not all of those - just the T and P series. those are the “pro” lines, durable, dependable, expandable, serviceable, and widely used. so when corporations swap out their fleet for new models, they flood the market and hence can be had for cheap. multiple generations of the same model are cross-generation compatible, so they share the same peripherals, like docks, have interchangeable parts, like keyboards, displays, etc.
don’t get used ideapads, thinkbooks, thinkpad E/L series, etc. those are either consumer-class models, have substandard features, are incompatible with each other, etc. don’t get the yogas and S-suffix models, as you’ll have a removed time servicing and/or upgrading those.
the whole point of getting something used, i.e. something that was touched and rubbed and spat all over, is if it’s a) in good enough shape and b) you get it for cheap. you took care of of item A when going for thinkpad T-series and you’re compromising on item B if you’re going through an intermediary.
them dudes you mention are skinning you alive - 500 EUR for a T14 G1 is insane, it should be less than half of that. I also like how they’re including none of the tech specs which just ups the ick factor.
what about the X line? particularly the x250 and x260? been thinking on getting one of those for a while because of their compact size
I’m referring to semi-modern laptops you’re most likely to get out of some corporation’s dump of obsolete tech, but that’s still usable - let’s say T480 and onward. you can retrofit those with tons of RAM, cheap storage, they have capable quad-cores, etc. you can get something like a T14 Ryzen 6-core with 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB SSD in the $200 region, if you do everything yourself.
everything before that is proper old tech, with predominantly anemic dual-cores (the ones you mention have single-channel RAM) and as such are a fun tinkering project, similar to the cyber deck projects - costs a lot of money, doesn’t do much. on the other side of that fence are power-hungry haswells and friends that can’t be wrangled into single-digit Watt/Hour territory however hard you tried.
so if you get one of those for free, or close to it, and you have parts laying around, by all means - this is as close you can get to the bespoke PC build in the laptop world. but ixnay on bying a decade old laptop for work and/or education.
edit:
X260 vs T14, negligible size difference
thank you brother, you might have saved me from a bullet; t480s and t470s are much easier to find on my country than x260s and x250s, also it’s easier to get better deals on them.
Was planning to go for one of those because of size exclusively pretty much, i like compact machines and was planning for a tiny laptop. if it isn’t bothersome to ask, do you so happen to know a cheap thinkpad around 28 x 22cm?
skip the T470, T480 with 8xxxu cpu is the lowest you should go; the hardware is practically identical (and interchangeable!) but the CPU is a huge difference. also if you find them for cheap, there’s T490 (refresh), T495 (AMD Ryzen), and T14 (newer variants of the T4xx series with Intel and AMD CPUs).
the 12" version would be the X280, again single-channel RAM only. in the 12" space you also have Dell Latitude 7290/7200 (just the latitude series, no inspirons and friends) as well as HP Elitebook 820 (and 830) with 8xxx and newer CPUs. Elitebooks and Latitudes are Thinkpad T-series equivalents with similar build quality and features.
thank you! your advice will be very valuable! i’ve had came across those ryzen thinkpads and found quite some nice ones, but didn’t knew they would fit me dimensions
What’s a model you could stuff the most RAM into? I’d like a 4th Proxmox node I could replicate to and take offsite, but I don’t need a pile of redundant storage on it. Something I could get 128Gb into would be awesome.
T480 can take 64 GB (2x 32 GB); no idea if more is possible. I imagine newer models could but I struggle to remember seeing 64 GB SO-DIMMs… P15 can fit four sticks so that should be possible, but them things have beefy CPUs, are rather large, and also have Nvidia graphics so dunno how low-power you can make those.
you’re kinda outside of the intersection of cheap and still capable with that spec. do make a write-up if you succeed, that sounds interesting.
That’s super helpful - I didn’t realize how big a difference there is between models. Thanks for clarifying. And yeah, by now I get the sense that LinuxPusher.dk is not for me. :)
I don’t know about Lenovo in general, but the two things I like about Thinkpads in particular and why I generally stick to them are their keyboards and the mouse nub / joystick thingy (trackpoint).
Their keyboardsThe keys on their keyboards are still curved to give you proper tactile feedback of where your fingers are relative to the keys (unlike the abominable flat square keyboards on many/most other manufacturers), and the trackpoint is a great way to use a mouse-like pointer without moving your hands from home position on the keyboard. It looks like some current models are doing away with the trackpoint, which I think is a terrible mistake.I’m not sure if any manufacturers still have either of these features or both on their current laptops, but they’re absolutely must have features for me.
Also, I usually buy used/refurbished Thinkpads cheap from ebay.
I bought my P14s Gen 4 refurbished on eBay and have had no trouble. The nice thing about Lenovo is that they have really good documentation and the ThinkPad series are highly serviceable.
I’ve had good luck with an X201, W520, and T480 - all thinkpads. Haven’t tried any of the lower end lenovo models. I got my W520 new and my other ones off craigslist.
If you’re looking to get a preinstalled OS and from a refurb vendor, an interesting option would be buying from libreboot. Debian/KDE by default or you can choose your own distro. Libreboot is a good cause, and sales funds the project. You’ll have the most secure bios on the block.
I’d be very careful with setups that promise libre everything.
I don’t know this particular brand, but it is quite common for projects like this to not include security and stability updates with the sole justification that “it’s proprietary”.
Your laptop’s motherboard came with a fatal security issue, or is a time bomb waiting to implode on itself? Too bad, can’t receive updates from HP, Lenovo, Dell or whatever because they are proprietary…
Just something to keep in mind.
they only offer the one laptop, a T480. Not an HP, Dell, etc. Ongoing fixes to the UEFI and BIOS code are irrelevant as this has libreboot instead. That’s like saying you’re missing out on windows updates if you run linux.
And anyway the T480 is at end of life:
This product is no longer being actively supported by development (End of Development Support) and no further software updates will be provided.
Fair enough, I just wanted to point that out because i see a lot of people falling for the “it has nothing proprietary” mindset.
But there’s nothing wrong with that device that I can point to, other than it being older hardware with all the limitations that might entail.
Libreboot looks very, very interesting - thanks for the tip!
The hardest part about getting Linux installed on a Lenovo was getting rid of Windows and its death-grip on the bootloader and the TPM.
Also, a few things, like drivers for keyboard backlight and fingerprint scanner never got working. If you just want to experiment and play, could always try Linux under VMWare Workstation (free for personal use) or boot off a thumbdrive.
Interesting - and yet I read about many folks installing Linux on thinkpads, and those laptops even being recommended for Linux. Is it just cause so many have worked on making Lenovo be able to handle Linux?
Yeah from the little research I’ve done ThinkPads are it
Thinkpads have always had the reputation for being solid machines, even after IBM spun them out to Lenovo. But there are so many variations of components I imagine it’s hard to keep drivers uptodate for the odd peripherals, especially the entry and mid-range ones.
FWIW, Dell also sells laptops with Linux pre-installed, so likely to have working drivers for all peripherals. HP used to have a “HP DevOne” which got good reviews, but they’re discontinued. If looking for a refurb, that might not be a bad option. System76 and Framework also get decent reviews.
Lenovo brand new is bad, refurbished, well, you just want to have a bad time. This only applies to the new Chinese owned Lenovo, the IBM ones are fine in all possible states.
Well, I don’t want to have a bad time, that’s for sure…thanks for the warning. I’ll be cautious about Lenovo.
Unless they are literally $150, still nothing to beat a Refurb Framework from their Refurb store for $350-450 that comes with a warranty.
Franework isn’t even available in my country (switzerland) so I guess it’ll be difficult to find refurbished ones in the EU.
Can’t seem to find refurbs on their website - and judging from the original announcement, they may only be available in the US and Canada (I’m in the EU).
It looks like they renamed it to “Outlet” now: here’s a link
Thanks - I’ll check it out!
