But with Ozempic there is some serious long-term shit going on, which is bad, as you basically have to take this stuff forever or bounce back hard faster than you saying “supersize this burger meal”.
Truth is that everyone is an individual and side effects will happen with any drug. He unfortunately, experienced a debilitating one but there are millions who do not experience that. So, it is true, he is unlucky but I have seen so many patients who decide to go ahead because they just don’t believe they will be that small percentage to experience the bad ones.
I think most medications are meant to be accompanied with permanent lifestyle changes where possible. No, you should not take this drug “forever”. If you take ozempic for weight loss but choose to continue eating like shit then it isn’t the drug’s fault. Assuming of course there isn’t some other medical disorder leading to weight gain, but again, balancing the negative health effects of obesity vs any negative effects of weight loss drugs needs to be examined by patient and physician.
If you take ozempic for weight loss but choose to continue eating like shit then it isn’t the drug’s fault.
That’s not how it works. Ozempic simply opresses the hunger feeling, therefor helping you lose weight. Problem is that still existing, but empty/depleted fat cells basically scream “we are hungry”, so as soon as you get off Ozempic, you basically can’t stop eating until you regained at least the former state. That was - for me - the reason not to start on Ozempic, it’s like the “bounce back” effect after a diet, but on steroids. That current research has found other issues (heart problems, ocular nerve damages) just enforced my rejection (I was offered this on a free prescription base).
I think most medications are meant to be accompanied with permanent lifestyle changes where possible. No, you should not take this drug “forever”.
That is a very idealistic view, at least on some medication. With Ozempic, this is basically impossible due to the circumstances written above, with other medications it is simply due to the fact that no “lifestyle changes” can change e.g. genetic defects.
Because weight gain is from not having enough vitamins or a correct balance of vitamins. Taking fat soluble vitamins (esp E&K1&coq10) made me lose weight and exercise more without trying.
You completely ignored the “permanent lifestyle change” aspect. It doesn’t matter whether the person in need of weight loss does it via diet and exercise or via diet and ozempic, the diet/lifestyle that they got themselves fat on has to change.
You’re basically blaming the drug for the person’s inability to psychologically deal with diet. That isn’t what the drug does. No, you don’t need to eat back to your old weight, that’s the part where permanent change to diet comes in.
I already stated a caveat for conditions that may be outside the user’s control, so don’t use that as an excuse for all users. Yet again, the doctor and patient have to discuss the risks. I’m done here.
You’re basically blaming the drug for the person’s inability to psychologically deal with diet.
No, I don’t. I’m just stating facts on how the human body works. With extreme willpower you might be able to counter this for a time, yes. But it will be a serious uphill battle, and the messenger chemicals from the depleted fat cells do not just stop because you will them to. You will just have to live in a state of perpetual raving hunger then. The few who can successfully overcome this for a significant time are rare, indeed.
I’m down 100lbs and been chilling there for a a while actually. (I do bulk/cut cycles of around 30lbs for bodybuilding so my total weight loss fluctuates from like 120lbs to 90lbs depending on how that’s going. Just for disclosure)
But I’ve heard a few people mention this idea that “fat cells stick around forever” and “send hunger signals to fill you back up”. Do we have a scientific source for this?
My other thing with it is like, that’s not the reason someone gets fat the first time right? Because the idea is your fat cells start multiplying after a certain weight? So regardless it still seems important to address that first cause and not repeat it
But for me personally I just haven’t really experienced it at all lol. I’ve found that actually the type of food I eat makes me hungry and more likely to go off track. Like any fast food, most prepackaged snacks and prepared meals from the grocery store.
Like I could eat an 800cal pint of ice cream then have dinner 45 minutes later. But 200 calories of frozen grapes and I’m like, stuffed lol. Or I’ve also noticed if I have a doughnut in the morning (work offers them) I’m hungry all day, but eggs cheese oats and yogurt leave me satisfied to the point where I’m not hungry at all when I get home, and eat just because I know I need the nutrition from dinner.
Anyway sorry for rambling, really I’m just curious to get to the bottom of the “depleted fat cell” thing. I had never heard of it the entire time I was losing weight/maintaining then all of the sudden I’m hearing it pop up in lots of places, even lemmy now
Because hunger has to do with vitamin balancing and a lot of people don’t get enough of certain vitamins which keeps them always behind.
Eg vitamin A makes your skin slough off in excess and can kill you in very high doses. To treat high vitamin a in the ER, doctors use vitamin e. Vitamin E can make you bleed in excess if you have a deficiency of vitamin K, so vitamin e excess is treated with vitamin k. Vitamin e deficiency can also cause blood clots. Vitamin D interacts with all of the above as well and they actually all interact with each other and make uo a large part of the immune system with downstream effects on other vitamins including b vitamins.
For a lot of people, once they understand how to balance their vitamins, they dont feel hungry anymore. But people alwyas want a magic pill that splves everything instead
In adults, fat cell number is constant over time in spite of a large turnover (about 10% of the fat cells per year) when body weight is stable. A decrease in body weight only changes fat cell size (becoming smaller), whereas an increase in body weight causes elevation of both fat cell size and number in adults.
Basically the gist of the whole idea is that your body maintains the level of fat cells pretty steadily as an adult. When you gain or lose weight the cells just grow or shrink, but they can only grow so big before you need new cells to store more energy and your body will build them. Each of the fat cells have a part to play in signaling that you’re in a deficit and need to consume more calories (when we didn’t have such calorie dense foods readily available this was probably correct most of the time). So, if you have 2 or 3 times the number of fat cells then you “should” that’s increasing the signaling you receive to eat, making it harder not to (simplifying that a lot). In normal maintenance, your body still maintains that turnover pretty steadily so it generally doesn’t go away.
I’ve read the first study already, it doesn’t comment at all on the hunger signaling aspect.
The second study is just proposing this as a mechanism which may account for weight regain. They spin off pretty quickly into a more matter-of-fact tone while presenting the hypothesis itself, but at the moment it remains speculation. I obviously haven’t had the time to click through to every reference in there, but so far the links I have checked similarly lead to speculation.
Basically I think it’s somewhat dishonest to present this hypothesis as a statement of fact. I feel like the inevitable result of this mischaracterization will cause people to not even try. Why bother if something is probably impossible, or only one in a million could do it?
Thank you for linking it however, and I will be very interested to know if Professor MacLean verifies the concept. Of note, in the conclusion they propose that environmental and behavioral interventions will be important for combatting this effect, if it does turn out to be true
The “fat cells are multiplying” is normal when having surplus calories in the body. The “empty fat cells scream hunger” is something that was suspected basically for ages, but has finally be proven not long ago, the paper is less than half a year old. It had been referred to here on Lemmy, at least to a science or nature article that pointed to the paper.
Could you direct me to the paper where it was proven? There seems to be a notable amount of bad journalism and broad misrepresentation of the science on this topic.
We are basically discussing whether or not obesity is an inescapable condemnation, so we should not sensationalize the topic whatsoever, and we should especially not present it as a fact if it is not a fact
That’s from people losing weight on their normal diet because of Ozempic, but never changing their diet for their new lower weight selves, so naturally they immediately gain it back.
No, it is just the way this drug works. You take Ozempic, it supresses your hunger feeling, and you automatically change your diet as you are not as hungry anymore.
Problem is that the depleted fat cells still exist, and a depleted fat cell releases signals that scream “I’m hungry! Feed me!”, and the more they are depleted, the louder the call. While you take Ozempic, this is supressed, but as soon as you get off it, your body demands food to re-fill the depleted cells, and will not stopping before it has reached at least the former status quo.
Just like the bounce back effect after a diet, only worse.
Like many medications, you are balancing the risks of continuing with an unmedicated health problem or any negative side effects of the medication.
But with Ozempic there is some serious long-term shit going on, which is bad, as you basically have to take this stuff forever or bounce back hard faster than you saying “supersize this burger meal”.
It hospitalized my ex for 12 days. The side effects are real. He’s in a class action suit against the company.
Truth is that everyone is an individual and side effects will happen with any drug. He unfortunately, experienced a debilitating one but there are millions who do not experience that. So, it is true, he is unlucky but I have seen so many patients who decide to go ahead because they just don’t believe they will be that small percentage to experience the bad ones.
It actually is more complex than that and the makers of Ozempic didn’t disclose this side effect.
https://www.med.ubc.ca/news/weight-loss-drugs-linked-to-stomach-paralysis-other-serious-gastrointestinal-conditions/
I think most medications are meant to be accompanied with permanent lifestyle changes where possible. No, you should not take this drug “forever”. If you take ozempic for weight loss but choose to continue eating like shit then it isn’t the drug’s fault. Assuming of course there isn’t some other medical disorder leading to weight gain, but again, balancing the negative health effects of obesity vs any negative effects of weight loss drugs needs to be examined by patient and physician.
That’s not how it works. Ozempic simply opresses the hunger feeling, therefor helping you lose weight. Problem is that still existing, but empty/depleted fat cells basically scream “we are hungry”, so as soon as you get off Ozempic, you basically can’t stop eating until you regained at least the former state. That was - for me - the reason not to start on Ozempic, it’s like the “bounce back” effect after a diet, but on steroids. That current research has found other issues (heart problems, ocular nerve damages) just enforced my rejection (I was offered this on a free prescription base).
That is a very idealistic view, at least on some medication. With Ozempic, this is basically impossible due to the circumstances written above, with other medications it is simply due to the fact that no “lifestyle changes” can change e.g. genetic defects.
Because weight gain is from not having enough vitamins or a correct balance of vitamins. Taking fat soluble vitamins (esp E&K1&coq10) made me lose weight and exercise more without trying.
You completely ignored the “permanent lifestyle change” aspect. It doesn’t matter whether the person in need of weight loss does it via diet and exercise or via diet and ozempic, the diet/lifestyle that they got themselves fat on has to change.
You’re basically blaming the drug for the person’s inability to psychologically deal with diet. That isn’t what the drug does. No, you don’t need to eat back to your old weight, that’s the part where permanent change to diet comes in.
I already stated a caveat for conditions that may be outside the user’s control, so don’t use that as an excuse for all users. Yet again, the doctor and patient have to discuss the risks. I’m done here.
No, I don’t. I’m just stating facts on how the human body works. With extreme willpower you might be able to counter this for a time, yes. But it will be a serious uphill battle, and the messenger chemicals from the depleted fat cells do not just stop because you will them to. You will just have to live in a state of perpetual raving hunger then. The few who can successfully overcome this for a significant time are rare, indeed.
I’m down 100lbs and been chilling there for a a while actually. (I do bulk/cut cycles of around 30lbs for bodybuilding so my total weight loss fluctuates from like 120lbs to 90lbs depending on how that’s going. Just for disclosure)
But I’ve heard a few people mention this idea that “fat cells stick around forever” and “send hunger signals to fill you back up”. Do we have a scientific source for this?
My other thing with it is like, that’s not the reason someone gets fat the first time right? Because the idea is your fat cells start multiplying after a certain weight? So regardless it still seems important to address that first cause and not repeat it
But for me personally I just haven’t really experienced it at all lol. I’ve found that actually the type of food I eat makes me hungry and more likely to go off track. Like any fast food, most prepackaged snacks and prepared meals from the grocery store.
Like I could eat an 800cal pint of ice cream then have dinner 45 minutes later. But 200 calories of frozen grapes and I’m like, stuffed lol. Or I’ve also noticed if I have a doughnut in the morning (work offers them) I’m hungry all day, but eggs cheese oats and yogurt leave me satisfied to the point where I’m not hungry at all when I get home, and eat just because I know I need the nutrition from dinner.
Anyway sorry for rambling, really I’m just curious to get to the bottom of the “depleted fat cell” thing. I had never heard of it the entire time I was losing weight/maintaining then all of the sudden I’m hearing it pop up in lots of places, even lemmy now
Because hunger has to do with vitamin balancing and a lot of people don’t get enough of certain vitamins which keeps them always behind.
Eg vitamin A makes your skin slough off in excess and can kill you in very high doses. To treat high vitamin a in the ER, doctors use vitamin e. Vitamin E can make you bleed in excess if you have a deficiency of vitamin K, so vitamin e excess is treated with vitamin k. Vitamin e deficiency can also cause blood clots. Vitamin D interacts with all of the above as well and they actually all interact with each other and make uo a large part of the immune system with downstream effects on other vitamins including b vitamins.
For a lot of people, once they understand how to balance their vitamins, they dont feel hungry anymore. But people alwyas want a magic pill that splves everything instead
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29991030/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4371661/
This one’s not as easy for me to quote.
Basically the gist of the whole idea is that your body maintains the level of fat cells pretty steadily as an adult. When you gain or lose weight the cells just grow or shrink, but they can only grow so big before you need new cells to store more energy and your body will build them. Each of the fat cells have a part to play in signaling that you’re in a deficit and need to consume more calories (when we didn’t have such calorie dense foods readily available this was probably correct most of the time). So, if you have 2 or 3 times the number of fat cells then you “should” that’s increasing the signaling you receive to eat, making it harder not to (simplifying that a lot). In normal maintenance, your body still maintains that turnover pretty steadily so it generally doesn’t go away.
I’ve read the first study already, it doesn’t comment at all on the hunger signaling aspect.
The second study is just proposing this as a mechanism which may account for weight regain. They spin off pretty quickly into a more matter-of-fact tone while presenting the hypothesis itself, but at the moment it remains speculation. I obviously haven’t had the time to click through to every reference in there, but so far the links I have checked similarly lead to speculation.
Basically I think it’s somewhat dishonest to present this hypothesis as a statement of fact. I feel like the inevitable result of this mischaracterization will cause people to not even try. Why bother if something is probably impossible, or only one in a million could do it?
Thank you for linking it however, and I will be very interested to know if Professor MacLean verifies the concept. Of note, in the conclusion they propose that environmental and behavioral interventions will be important for combatting this effect, if it does turn out to be true
The “fat cells are multiplying” is normal when having surplus calories in the body. The “empty fat cells scream hunger” is something that was suspected basically for ages, but has finally be proven not long ago, the paper is less than half a year old. It had been referred to here on Lemmy, at least to a science or nature article that pointed to the paper.
Could you direct me to the paper where it was proven? There seems to be a notable amount of bad journalism and broad misrepresentation of the science on this topic.
We are basically discussing whether or not obesity is an inescapable condemnation, so we should not sensationalize the topic whatsoever, and we should especially not present it as a fact if it is not a fact
That’s… Not a side effect.
That’s from people losing weight on their normal diet because of Ozempic, but never changing their diet for their new lower weight selves, so naturally they immediately gain it back.
No, it is just the way this drug works. You take Ozempic, it supresses your hunger feeling, and you automatically change your diet as you are not as hungry anymore.
Problem is that the depleted fat cells still exist, and a depleted fat cell releases signals that scream “I’m hungry! Feed me!”, and the more they are depleted, the louder the call. While you take Ozempic, this is supressed, but as soon as you get off it, your body demands food to re-fill the depleted cells, and will not stopping before it has reached at least the former status quo.
Just like the bounce back effect after a diet, only worse.