I never will understand how somebody gets into any facet of medicine (e.g. nurse, doctor, pharmacist) and find it okay to deny anybody healthcare solely based on how the person lives. Like dude, there are better ways to make money and be a bigot at the same time. Insurance CEO comes to mind. Cannon fodder as well.
Same answer to both; cowardly traditionalist afraid to speak their minds.
From traditional/conservative families which value the status of being a doctor, not the “helping patients” part. Prejudiced.
On a similar vein, I don’t understand doctors who are young earth creationists. Your whole job is understanding biology.
The absolute gall they have to call it a “lifestyle” like people choose to live that way one day
It’s not a fucking lifestyle, LGBTQ+ people just are and they exist
They don’t choose to suddenly be that way one day, they have been that way their entire life and discover that about themselves
"Ah, but they choose to act on it! You see, my old preacher struggled with gay thoughts all the time because of Satan. He told us so nearly every Sunday. But did he act on them? No! He was straight, just as god intended.
So those people having gay thoughts are CHOOSING to be gay when they could pray and get a wife and have children like the lord said."
-Some dipshit I know
“He resisted his homosexual urges, and remained faithful to his heterosexual wife until the very day he shot himself.”
“You know what I’m talking about; the homosexual fantasies the devil constantly sends into everyone’s heads since they became teenagers. Those ones. … What do you mean ‘no’?”
Tangentially related, or at least it made me think of it.
Orson Scott Card said this:
Ender’s childhood is based, albeit loosely, on my own; his relationship with Peter and Valentine is based, not on my actual relationship with my older brother and sister, but rather on the way I conceived those relationships to be when I was Ender’s age. Ender’s revised understanding of Peter late in life parallels in emotion the same revision I went through in my teens as I discovered… my childish view of my older brother was hopelessly wrong
For those that don’t know, Peter abused the hell out of Ender. Not a huge spoiler. Another time he said this:
The dark secret of homosexual society … is how many homosexuals first entered into that world through a disturbing seduction or rape or molestation or abuse
Then he went on to write several of the same character. Either homosexual or asexual who takes a wife in order to raise children. But it’s literally never about the woman. Anton was mostly open about his sexuality but married a woman. Ender had no sexual urges (there was a lot of underage homo-adjacent stuff and some sister stuff, but not necessarily gay) until he married. And did he marry her for her? Nope. The first thing he thinks of is how her 6 kids need him. Ansset is gay and married a woman. It’s pretty obvious he believes a lot of folks are gay because they were abused and it’s pretty obvious he was abused. And he believes those men should get married and raise children because that’s the highest calling.
I’m not usually a “homophobic means closeted homosexual” but I’m of the firm belief that Card is so far in the closet he’s finding Christmas presents.
He also wrote Wyrm (teenage girl is biologically destined to be impregnated by worm monster, that’s literally what the entire book is about) and Harts Hope (our hero has to rape a teenage princess in front of her entire kingdom for reasons, this turns her evil and she becomes the main antagonist.)
Card’s fucked up a lot more than “closet gay.”
I act on all the homosexual urges I have. They just happen to be zero. If you have homosexual urges it’s likely because you’re gay. I’m not really sure why this concept is so hard especially for the ultra religious….
Something like this is what encouraged my wife’s conservative grandmother to reconsider her thoughts on the topic. She heard about a gay teen who committed suicide and asked “if it was a choice, why wouldn’t they just choose not to be gay instead of killing themselves?”
“if it was a choice, why wouldn’t they just choose not to be gay instead of killing themselves?”
Props to gramma. A lot of conservative people honestly just would dismiss it with the backwards logic; “so stupid of them to kill themselves when they could’ve just chosen not to be gay”.
I’m unsure whether they actually believe it themselves, though.
As I said to my parents when they said something similar:
Not everyone is a 0 or 6 on the Kinsey scale. Plenty of people have some amount of choice. But not everyone is a 3, either. Most people have a preference. And some people are a 0 or 6. Just because one person with “gay temptations” successfully lived as a heterosexual doesn’t mean everyone can. The world is more complicated than that.
Here’s the thing, whether or not it’s a “lifestyle” shouldn’t even enter into the equation. Healthcare workers are supposed to treat everyone the same, regardless of what the patient has done or how they live. If you can’t deal with that, don’t go into healthcare.
Well, it’s a bit of both. The ostracized nature of ‘different’ people has spawned several sub-cultures that most ‘different’ people fall in to to some degree or another.
Not that anything is wrong with either being different or living differently. Hegemonic monocultures are so… fucking… BORING.
I’ve even seen it flipped around by the people who invented the term in the first place. “They call it a lifestyle, but that’s a euphemism for gross behavior”. Well, not those exact words. “Euphemism” has too many syllables for their education level.
Not suddenly, but gradually
They gradually do not choose to be themselves? I don’t understand.
M137 understood what I meant.
I believe that people are born with the same primitive instincts as everyone else, (survive and reproduce) but they gradually begin to develop their own feelings and sense of being. Some natural, some by trauma, etc, overcoming the expectations of your parents being the biggest hurdle.
I’m just simply saying that people aren’t born knowing they’re a part of that community until they’ve come to a realization or a spark.
Just my opinion. Just how I observed a family member and his experiences. Sadly, no one accepted him and he’s gone now. But I read his journals about how he felt, came to being, etc afterwards. Just wanted to understand.
Very much not true for all. Some realise things over time, but most were born like they are. Some also do choose things, but it’s a very small percentage and that in no way makes it any less important to accept and support.
“I refuse to treat left handed people. It’s a lifestyle I don’t agree with.”
“Is this career path okay with discrimination? Because I have groups I want to die.”
It is important to consider both sides on any issue. Thank you for keeping things Fair and Balanced.
/s
I don’t trust anything about this… meme? I don’t know what we call context-less clips of other people’s comments that get circulated.
Whatever it is, it is trying to sound positive but it’s implying some false narratives. It’s implying that this is a common or new issue that professors are always dealing with, that there’s some common wave of pushback against treating LGBTQ patients. If you’re studying to be a doctor or healthcare professional, most likely you already don’t give half a fuck about someone’s gender identity or sexuality unless it impacts their treatment. (Yes there are some bigoted healthcare professionals out there, but they’re not the norm.)
The narrative here is making it seem like poor, naive students are now suddenly worried about how they’re going to deal with all these trans and gay people flooding the healthcare industry.
If it’s not subtly trying to introduce a false narrative like this, it’s serving that purpose all the same and should be buried and not circulated any further.
Medical malpractice is a huge issue for LGBT people - especially trans people who require specific care and are therefore much easier to spot. It’s honestly a big issue in the sciences in general, and it’s definitely not a new issue, but more likely against specific groups. Women are much more likely to have to be their own advocates to get proper care, often being denied pain medication, told that they’re just making up their symptoms, or having their agency denied or choice of treatment being deferred to their husbands (generally when it comes to things that might affect sex, such as surgeries to constrict the vagina after giving birth or having their uterus removed due to medical issues).
And it’s not just that trans people often have to understand HRT at a doctorate level in order to fight for their right to the proper care and treatment that they deserve. I have read plenty of stories of trans people being denied care by bigoted healthcare workers - even a case of a woman in New York who only found out she had an aggressive form of cancer after the technician who diagnosed her tests called her to ask her how her chemo was going. Her doctor simply never told her the diagnosis and the only reason that she’s still alive is because of that technician who made sure that she got proper treatment after the shock of hearing that she didn’t even know that she had cancer.
Bias affects medicine all the way up the chain, from how nurses treat you to what gets taught in schools and even what fields get research funding. I taught my therapist pretty much everything he knows about transgender people, for example - because he’s older and they didn’t teach about trans people. And I have no qualifications in the field other than being trans and therefore having to teach myself to ensure I get proper care. Many doctors don’t know about trans specific medical care despite HRT starting to be researched in the 1920s in Germany (and only reappearing at the end of the 20th century after the Nazis burnt all the research). The medical field is taught based on the white body of a specific weight, which leaves out the differences in care that black people and people above or below that weight require. We only really started looking into what exactly female ejaculate is in the past 30 years or so. AIDS research was denied funding by the US government for at least a year while roughly 120 Americans died of AIDS every day, during which time all bottled medication was pulled from stores and the safety seal was developed and implemented over the course of 3 months because somebody poisoned a couple of bottles of Advil with cyanide.
It’s not a new issue, but it’s become more prevalent in recent years as people like the student above have become emboldened by recent events - like the rulings that say that doctors don’t have to treat certain people if it would “violate their religious beliefs.”
What I always find funny about this is, back when I used to do IT, if I refused to do something for someone who had bible verses on their office wall or a cross necklace I would be the one fired.
Someone being LGBT doesn’t mean McDonald’s is allowed to refuse them service, or ESSO is allowed to refuse to sell them gas, or a gym can refuse them membership. Why the fuck do you think a doctor should be allowed to refuse them treatment for a disease?
Someone being LGBT doesn’t mean McDonald’s is allowed to refuse them service, or ESSO is allowed to refuse to sell them gas, or a gym can refuse them membership.
Patience, patience … the GOP is working on this as well.
Technically they aren’t. By their plan, someone who is LGBT couldn’t be refused service at McDonalds because they are to be arrested and thrown in jail on sight. Like, how would they have even gotten into McDonalds much less have the gall to ask for a Big Mac?..
Finally someone is doing something.
/s
Doesn’t this fall under the Hippocratic oath anyways? Or am I mistaken
The oath is a promise, not a law. People break promises all the time.
If you are POTUS you get to break the law all the time too.
Yes, but it’s an ethical promise, so they are saying healthcare professionals have shady ethics.
not mistaken, but certain roles like pharmacists, cashiers, nurses, dentists and lab techs dont take that oath. Many doctors now take alternate oaths too, not the original oath.
Wasn’t there a bakery that won a case allowing them not to sell wedding cakes to gay couples?
No. The supreme court case you’re thinking of only ruled that the state commission acted unfairly towards the bakery, not necessarily that the bakery was right or wrong in their discrimination.
Yes…The Colorado Commission ruled against him but the Supreme Court said he didn’t have to let them eat cake.
What? They can totally do those things. They are private businesses who can reject whomever they want. Protected classes are only protected for things like housing, employment, and public things (school/utilities/etc.)
If that were true, the US would still have segregated lunch counters, grocery stores, and private buses. The Supreme Court may be getting us on the way there one day, but right now the only way that private businesses are allowed to discriminate against protected classes is to call the output work a “creative expression” like website design, floral arrangement, or cake decoration, and that’s from the 303 Creative case.
Besides, how would it make sense if a company could bar you as a customer for being gay, but be compelled to employ you?
There is no federal law that bans discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity in public accommodations, like restaurants, theaters and other businesses. However, state and local laws where you live may ban this kind of discrimination.
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I mean, this is correct. You take the oath, you have to live up to it. You will be treating people you don’t agree with, and you have to square up with that, or your rep will take a dive.
A friend of mine is a devout Muslim from a very conservative family and a doctor: he believes that his faith has no place in his job and therefore treats all his patients equally.
I think fundamentalists of all religions should take a leaf out of his book.
Please give him my gratitude for his level of professionalism. I mean it. We need more people like your doctor friend in the world today.
His faith demands he treat all patients equally:
“whoever saves a life, it will be as if they saved all of humanity” Qur’an 5:32
Nor can he impose his beliefs on others:
“Let there be no compulsion in religion” Qur’an 2:256
This would never fly in today’s era. Nor should it.
But about two decades ago I dated a gastroenterologist… I think she had around 13 years of schooling.
Anyways, her first day of med school, they made the entire class watch gay porn. Like vicious, graphic, excessively graphic gay porn.
With of course the professor saying if this makes you uncomfortable, you’d best find a new track. Because you ain’t going to make it, this is going to be your life: assholes, boils, pus, cancer, shit, piss, if you’re going to be a gastroenterologist you’re going to have your head up people’s asses your whole career…
Etc
This would never fly in today’s era. Nor should it.
I believe we already have individual states that allow health care providers to refuse care based on their religious beliefs.
So unfortunately, it seems to be flying alright.
Pretty sure they were speaking in reference to the anecdote they were about to relay.
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Wonder if there were any jars involved…that would be a pretty unfortunate situation.
Damn straight. Same thing for pharmacists or any other health official.
i dont know who or what to blame but some healthcare professionals are among the most cruel members of society
Because of their religious beliefs. Someday as a nation we need to reconcile religious freedom with freedom from other peoples religious ideas. We generally just give religious people whatever they want, presumably to shut them up and make them go away-- but that doesnt work.
If medical professionals are punished for refusing to treat patients because of race, then the same goes for refusing to treat someone for “having different lifestyle”.
Doctors and nurses see and take care of a lot of disgusting people, or people in disgusting states in all walks of the life. Them being LGBT should be the last hill for them to die on. Only shows how sheltered they have lived.
I have doctors/technicians in the family.
And… WTF.
Do the students know the horrific, gruesome, batshit crazy stuff doctors have to witness and deal with? Not just like objects stuck in orifices, but mentally ill and abusive patients, deathly contagious ones, slow motion tragedy, stuff oozing out of the body you wouldn’t believe. Criminal patients, criminal bosses and companies, drama with staff, corporate drama, other fucked up or abusive doctors, drug abuse (from the staff), plenty of sex scandals…
…And their thought is: “Patients that want to rub their genitals on the same sex? Eww. I refuse to deal with that, even professionally.”
Wut?
Let’s play devil’s advocate and say the bigotry is somehow justified (when it’s not). Still, how does that even work? Like, an anti-vaxx nurse I know makes at least some sense, by comparison.
Apparently in Tennessee it is now legal for doctors there to simply not treat people they don’t agree with their “lifestyle”.
Couldn’t pay me enough to live in a red state. Might as well move to a third world country for how backwards they all are.
“Woah this guys a millionaire you say? I’m afraid I cant operate on this man due to his choice to be wealthy.”
I’m in a red state. All we do is look at the blue states and weekly Whisper “help us”
Excellent. And they can take the pharmacists who have “personal or religious beliefs” and get rid of them too. No one should need to ask some other citizen’s personal permission for a service I contracted with my own doctor and medical company.
There are even some drug store cashiers that will refuse to sell condoms. Americans need to learn that if it doesnt affect you personally, its not their place to pretend they are a stakeholder in anyone else’s life. Stay in your effing lane, American healthcare workers. No one cares what you dont like or what your personal sky-fairy tells you. Last I heard “freedom of religion” was actually more “freedom from the tyranny of religion” when it was implemented by the nations founders.
While they are at it, Americans should stay out of other peoples bedrooms too. If they arent part of the situation, they don’t get a vote. As long as its consensual between two adult humans, its no one elses business what they do in there. <eagle cry of freedom right here>
