“But tires”
Ban all vehicles over 5000lbs to start without a specialized license and extremely heavy fees to have them. EVs are dropping in weight daily, ICE vehicles have been increasing in weight to dodge policies. One is a means to an end, the other is a means to profit.
Profit for few vs humanity’s existance… which should we choose?
This is a bad argument. Your conclusion happens to be factual, but it doesn’t follow from the premises.
Being in an enclosed space with an internal combustion engine will kill you because of the CO buildup, and no, that doesn’t happen in the open air. CO does oxidise to CO2 eventually, so it doesn’t just keep building up in the atmosphere.
The main harm caused by burning fossil fuels is the CO2, which is wreaking havoc on the climate and will kill billions - but not by poisoning them.
Why would it not be considered poisoning? It is a substance that is effectively killing people.
Yeah the enclosed space thing is about carbon monoxide though. Just find it to be easier for people to understand when people believe the earth is thriving because “there are more people now than ever.” Not caring that everything is dying around us.
No, that’s not poisoning.
If you get killed by a tsunami, that’s not water poisoning for fuck’s sake.
Fits the definition of poisoning.
Medical dictionary: Definition Poisoning occurs when any substance interferes with normal body functions after it is swallowed, inhaled, injected, or absorbed.
So if you drown, it would be, if you get crushed, I would say it doesn’t fall into poison
Good to know we’re not operating in reality. Don’t feed the trolls, people.
You’re living in a false reality apparently my friend. That’s just the definition of a word. Maybe find a different term.
Jesus Christ, the mental gymnastics and goal post moving.
Drowning is not water poisoning, and if you can’t figure out why, that’s no one’s problem but your own.
People struggle to think on a global scale and if you don’t understand how the atmosphere insulates, “that’s inside and this is outside” is a convincing enough argument for a lot of folk. Throw on the fact that some of the most powerful institutions in the world have very strong interests in keeping ICEs going and it’s pretty easy to see why so many people still believe those myths
Surely we won’t wind up with another oil tycoon leading the environmental protection agencies… Oh wait, they hired someone who denied climate change who accepted more than 300 million dollars in donations from the oil companies to get his positions. Surely trustworthy when it comes to his stance on oil.
Edit: wait that was last time… So this time it is someone who defended him during his impeachment when he tried to blackmail Ukriane when Russia was lining up to invade them…
Sheesh… good people we are lining up, good people
To add onto this. I did a rough estimate (hopefully I did it correctly) and assuming one billion ice vehicles as OP stated, if you scattered them evenly across the surface of the earth there would be about 25 miles separating each car. While I believe ice cars are quite damaging, it’s not hard to think it would be okay with that in mind.
Because most people are completely scientifically illiterate and do not understand the analogy you’re making because they don’t know what “atmosphere” is.
Reminds me of those threads “do you think you’re smarter than most people” of course anyone who responds either calls themselves a dumbass or agrees. But it’s always a biased question, because if you are sentient enough to understand the question you ARE smarter than most people.
It is also common knowledge that taking a bath with a running lamp will kill you, why do you think that has absolutely no impact in people’s buying lamps?
A car running in a small enclosed space is very different from a car running in the open in the same way that a lamp running underwater is very different from a lamp running in air.
That being said I do believe we should strive to have personal vehicles and public transportation be converted to EVs as soon as possible, because the issues with running ICEs vehicles in the open (which are different from running them indoors)
The earth is very much a small enclosured space when compared to the habitability of the universe.
Yes, but comparatively to the amount of cars it is very large. The problem with ICE vehicles is not one of carbon monoxide poisoning as it is in the garage, so the comparison is pointless, the earth is large enough that you would run out of fuel before you reach that level of emissions.
Science will find a way. Hopefully we can create an engine with exponential emissions per calorie. You just need to dream bigger. Have you been to a large city with less stringent emissions regulations?
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There’s this thing called “Alert Distance”, it’s the distance at which animals perceive and begin to react to a threat.
I’ll use it as an analogue for humans’ perceptions of threat.
Say a squirrel knows a cat is a threat, and may react to it when the cat is 15 feet away, whether that reaction is turning to face the threat, making a warning call, or running away.
Now put 50 cats hiding in the bushes and surrounding area around the squirrel. Can’t see ‘em, so it isn’t a problem, even though the squirrel knows cats are a bad thing. The alert distance hasn’t been triggered. The squirrels in the surrounding neighborhood are disappearing, eaten by cats, but our squirrel isn’t thinking too hard about this. More acorns for me!
Put a car in the garage and you can smell the exhaust. Your eyes probably water from the fumes. You know this is potentially lethal, so you do something about it. Shut off the car, leave the garage, open the garage door, whatever. Your alert distance has been triggered. The threat is right in front of you.
Now, as you say, drive that car outside with millions of other vehicles and systems consuming fossil fuels. No real smell or issues for most of us. The alert is only being triggered by what we read (if we bother to read anything that accurately portrays the threat) and maybe a rare bad storm or cluster of hot days that won’t negatively affect the vast majority of people. Negatively = inconvenience.
I don’t know if squirrels lie to themselves about how close a cat threat might be, but humans excel at lying to each other and to themselves for a crapload of reasons. So the fact is that the threat is invisible to many, ignored by most, and actively and willfully obfuscated by a shitload more. So the figurative alert distance doesn’t even exist at all for the vast majority of humans. It’s not going to kill you now, next week, or even next year.
Even when the world has crumbled, plenty will still lie about what’s to blame.
Look, I hate ICE cars too.
But this is whack. Putting a running car into a garage is dangerous because the free oxygen becomes depleted and it starts producing carbon monoxide as a result. This isn’t a problem when you’re driving around outdoors.
The reason the a running ICE car in a garage is dangerous is completely different than why ICE cars are bad for the environment.
Like, shit on ICE cars all you want, I’ll support it. But this is embarrassingly bad science. This is the kind of shit I’d have made up in grade 7 trying to an edgy eco-aware statement.
I had a friend who went down the right wing rabbit hole and he said that the earth is so big we can’t affect the environment that way.
Blew my mind. Trump supporter now as well.
Usually people like this start with the conclusion, and then search only for things that reinforce that (and ignore anything that conflicts). So, chances are, he wanted to believe that for whatever reason, so he sought reinforcement for that stupid idea. And found it.
When you’re outside all the gases coming out of your car’s tailpipe go up into the sky where they turn into stars.
Duh.
Edit: was looking at the serious answers. I apologize for my sarcasm.
That doesn’t sound right, but I don’t know enough about stars to dispute it.
Plus you get a nice smokey smell.
I have represented consumers in cases related to lung cancers, and in defending those claims, the insurance carriers always ask my clients in detail about how much time they’ve spent around cars.
They get really interested if you were a gas station attendant, or a valet, or especially worked at an auto garage, in which case they want to know about the size of the doors, if they were kept open or closed during work, if the garage had any kind of ventilation system, whether cieling fans or the pipes that go over an exhaust pipe.
Almost like they know something about hydrocarbon fumes that the rest of us don’t…
Insurance people are just trying to deny the claim that’s the only reason they have more interest in focusing on the job specifics. They can then use big scary words in court should it come to that.
Because the human brain doesn’t intuitively count the way we’re taught in school.
Our brains are very good at understanding 1, 2, sometimes 3 and, “many”. That’s the data we get from smart chips, young children and isolated pre-literate societies.
Counting bigger numbers requires abstract systems. Our brains can do that but it’s much harder and we don’t grasp it as well.
The practical offshot of this is that while it’s intuitively obvious that a small space like a garage will quickly fill up with toxic gasses, it’s far less intuitive that a “very big” outside can get saturated by a “pretty big number” of cars.
A lot of it has to do with propaganda, both the oil and car industry have successfully convinced people that they need petroleum and a car
The sky is fucking gigantic and the thought that we could ever have a big enough impact, even collectively, to make the slightest shift in something so massive feels dead wrong, even when you know it’s right.
I’m not here to diss EVs or praise ICE vehicles, but I want to simply directly answer your question. There’s one simple mantra that is applicable to a lot of things in life…the dose makes the poison. Not odd to see people extrapolate to that your scenario.
In one, although the quantity is greater, you’re “diluting” the gas into the humongous atmosphere. In the other, you’re taking the gas straight up undiluted.
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They’re saying a 300sqft garage is going to fill up with carbon monoxide long before the planet does because the volume of space is drastically different. It’s why they tell you to spray paint in well ventilated areas versus huffing it out of a bag.
Because if the earth doesn’t want it, it has ways of shutting down that kind of thing.
In theory, concentration and expose time could mean that whatever is hurting you in an enclosed garage isn’t a problem outside. Which is some what true. Carbon monoxide bonding to the hemoglobin in your blood cells is what kills you in the first scenario. The CO2 levels take a lot longer to rise to dangerous levels and there’s plenty of warning to leave the area before fixation becomes an issue and it’s still not the same issue as climate change.
In reality, it’s propaganda. But if you want to argue with people, don’t use the enclosed space as an example. Batteries can also offgas and quite frankly, I wouldn’t store some of those cheaper EVs in a garage or at least, an attached garage.
