The main thing I’m learning from this thread is that a surprising number of people don’t shut their machines down when they’re done using them. Which is wild to me.
A lot of modern windows laptop don’t let you shut them down.
They use something called Windows Hybrid Sleep and it should be illegal. Selecting shut down in windows will keep the machine in a state where it will turn on at random times to check for updates. Especially fun whrn in your backpack creating a furnace.
Thankfully it can be disabled via AD policy.
Shouldn’t have to use fucking group policy just to stop your machine updating at inopportune times. Fucking Windows.
It’s always funny to me when people call Linux complicated and in the next sentence say shit like that
As if doing registry edits and group policy stuff is acceptable for basic features and settings
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Ah yeah I forgot about hybrid sleep as I turned if off years ago and forgot it existed. Such a nonsense feature.
Ah yes, the greek hydra of IT. Disable one policy, two more shall take it’s place.
Or just disable the Fast Startup option
I remember you have to press either Shift or Alt for the shutdown button to actually shut down the PC.
is that not on by default for every windows installation?
You dont need to use group policy.
Admin console: powercfg.exe /hibernate off
Now its off. Hybrid sleep is just a faster Hibernate.
Or just turn off fast Startup in the power settings.
I meant that you can thankfully disable it with group policy so that the 3000 laptops I manage at work don’t all cook in backpacks every day.
I’ve been out of the GPO game for a while, but I’ve never heard of widespread issues with laptops waking up even if their lids are closed. Did this start with Windows 11?
Yeah it started sometime in 2022. Though also for Windows 10.
It also has some hardware requirements, so most older laptops wouldn’t have the issue.
The only reason why my uptime is only a month is because I took my PC with me on a work trip which involved packing it.
When I got my first (and only) PC, it was outright SUGGESTED to never power it down. By HP. So yeah I just sleep my computer, and yes I have to deal with the bullshit in the meme lol
Always wondered why the fuck my PC is awake before I even touch it.
Back in the day we did that because it too long to boot so we never shut it down.
20 years later we have servers at home that we never shut down.
No point. Sleep works great and live updates are flawless.
me too. i see no reason not to shut it down, unless boot time takes way too long (you dont have an ssd), you use windows (always takes too long), or you have a bunch of apps open and don’t want to lose the workflow.
though i just have to shutdown anyway because my pc is right under a couple of roof leaks and it might rain while i’m sleeping or not at home
honest question, because i use windows and i shut down every day. is 20 seconds really “too long” for a full boot up?
I think a lot of people are still stuck in the HDD days where windows could take 15-20 mins for a cold boot.
But I only sleep windows because I like to get game updates while I sleep.
boot hardly takes any time at all. it’s all the programs on the computer that take forever to start.
Ctrl shift esc. Turn off start on boot up programs that you don’t want to start.
… that just means your computer is useless when you start it up. And anyway I’m talking about things like your browser with previous tabs or your IDE.
I sit do that either lmao. My browser loads just the home page after closing
no, i was joking about the windows part there
i’d say too long is 1 minute or more
Look, I used to work with computers that would take 5 minutes to turn on. I’m done waiting for computers to boot, I want it to take the least time it can. If hibernation takes just 1 second off, I’m gonna use it.
To be fair I don’t always use it like that but suspend is convenient if I have a continuous work that is scattered all around.
what i’d day is “always turn off your computer when you’re done using it”, meaning you sleep it when you have work you don’t want to lose.
That’s what sleep is for. Just lock Gnome and let the computer sleep in a sensible amount of time. Instant on when you need.
Sign in states for tokens expire when you power cycle. If you’re in IT or moving between classes, not only would you have to wait for power down and power on each stop you make,you’d also need to sign into every tool you use that requires credentials. I work as a field tech for an MSP. If I had to shut down at the end of each stop and boot back up then I’d have to spend 20-30 minutes signing back into my RMM, ticket system, azure portal, knowledge base etc on top of the site specific stuff I’m already going to have to sign into for that stop. Sleep great. Just disable S0 sleep.
That’s ass. Your bosses should be moving away from that shitty software
Shitty software? The software is great. It sucks that we live in a world that needs MFA to be secure. I also don’t think any software exists in the IT space that doesn’t require some sign in. Every RMM on the planet is going to require secure sign on and so will every knowledge base software. You also need to sign in to access things like domain DNS. Most of my job is locked behind half a dozen sign ins. That’s how it goes for MSPs anything else would be unsecure.
My Windows 10 computer eerily waking itself from sleep got me in the habit of shutting it down completely every night. I’d be lying in bed, turn over and open my eyes, and see the light of the screen reflecting off the wall. It was like something out of a shitty horror movie about computers taking over the world.
To this fucking day, even in Windows 11, it takes “Update and Shut Down” as a mere fucking suggestion. About half the time, it’ll restart after the update and just sit there chilling at the login screen. Not a single fuck given.
Linux is a breath of fresh air by comparison. Though, if you choose to run Arch you need to stay on top of updates or else a day will come where you won’t be able to update because you’re now too far behind. It can be fixed manually, but it’s still annoying and a little scary if you’re not familiar with it.
The software is arrogant and needs to know its place. It serves the user. It should obey.
ACPI enabled BIOSes and UEFI support wake timers.
Windows uses this feature to wake the PC all spooky like so you don’t get to click the update button yourself.
While Windows doesn’t have an Arch wiki, the instructions for turning the automatic wake feature off are a web search away. You’ll need another web search to disable automatic updates though.
i didnt know arch did that. never happened to me, though i guess that’s because i update it like once every month or every two months, sometimes every day (depends on how long i can forget about updates existing)
The GPG keys that are used to sign packages expire and are rotated something like every six months to a year. If you don’t get the new ones in an update before they start being used, pacman will refuse to update at all.
It’s easily fixable, but if you don’t know that, it can be quite intimidating.
oh that makes sense, thx for explaining :D
Linux users when their computer won’t boot because they fucked up their grub config again: (Totally not me)
Are you distro hopping? That’s when my grub would fail on me on a monthly basis.
Or just installed few months of missing updates, looking at you my broken Manjaro dual-boot
Just don’t use a rolling distro.
Tumbleweed will update six months of packages or more without breaking a sweat. It’s all about using something sturdy.
A lot of systems use systemd boot. Also, why would you be modifying Grub?
They’re trolling and have no idea what the fuck they’re talking about. I’ve literally not had a bootloader failure in a decade from multiple Linux OS installs.
The only time I had an issue was when I was playing with a bleeding edge distro and it borked full disk encryption, but that was INTENTIONALLY bleeding edge and I knew the risks.
Nah I was doing some virtualization troubleshooting and had to make some changes to grub. Luckily I had backups, but as a serial tinkerer I break stuff pretty often. Also fucked up my fstab when trying to automount drives, though that was an easy fix. I never claimed to be a clever man
My ex had one of them RGB everything rainbow gamer PCs.
Windows would auto boot to update in the middle of the night and turn the whole apartment into a rave…
damn, that sucks
also because that’s the only thing about that ex i know, the only conclusion i can make is that you stopped dating because of random middle of the night RGB raves
I have a gaming machine with no crazy RGBs, but the video card has a loud fan when at maximum. Most of the time it isn’t at maximum. When using the desktop it’s nice and quiet. When gaming it depends on the game, but mostly it’s not too loud. But. BUT! When it first turns on, the fans go to max for a second or two. I was woken up more than once by Windows deciding it needed to turn my PC on to install an update, and the fans screaming for a second as it booted.
I eventually found a setting that disabled that behaviour, but Microsoft made it so incredibly hard. Now that that machine is almost 100% Linux I never have to worry about that.
“My PC” was even replaced with “this PC” since Windows 11, which feels almost too symbolic…
Windows does not wake up from “hibernation” to do “updates”. What it really does is sleep walk during S0 sleep (aka Modern Standby) to check for updates, slowly draining your battery. Classic hibernation is not available while S0 sleep is supported by the BIOS.
Mac is also guilty of this.
What it really does is sleep walk during S0 sleep (aka Modern Standby) to check for updates, slowly draining your battery
More importantly, telling Windows to shut down doesn’t really shut it down, it puts it to sleep.
So just uncheck the Fast Startup option and it does not do that anymore.
I’m bottom even when I used windows because I turn it the hell off when I’m not using my computer.
isn’t the joke in the bottom that the pc and you are both sleeping tho
Why is this true 😭
Nope. My Linux Mint randomly wakes up from sleep mode all the time. It’s just a bug. Tried to fix it, never found solution. I guess I am fine with it. Well. Not really. Help me if you can!!11!!
My first guess world be unplug your mouse and keyboard and see if it still happens. Your mouse or keyboard could be sending phantom inputs sometimes. If it’s a laptop maybe not though or you’d have to test it another way at least. But it’s the first thing I’d do.
Apparently you can see which devices can wake your PC with
cat /proc/acpi/wakeup. S3 should be sleep and S4 hibernation. Though I have no idea which device is which.Lspci and lsusb will help you match up with the list
Thank you guys! Lemmy is great!
Put chrome on it, that should fix it
I had to spend an annoying amount of time finding all of the settings to make it so that my windows machine would never wake up on its own, spread out over an even longer period of time because some of them aren’t easy to trigger on my own so it was a matter of trying something and then trying more things if I find it awake on its own again.
Even disabling the wake on mouse movement was a pain because it doesn’t properly label mice and keyboards and doesn’t have a global setting. I wanted to keep wake on keyboard but not have it wake if my mouse moved a nm because a butterfly flapped its wings too vigorously as it flew by the closed window.
After I installed Linux, I went to do the same thing there only to find it already had sensible defaults set.
Another day of learning about Linux from the comments under a meme.
Open terminal, run
shutdown /s /t 0.That should do a complete shutdown that windows can’t wake itself up from.
I just unplug my computer when I’m done with it. That way it doesn’t update.
It makes a cool popping sound as my speakers and screen flash off.
Don’t forget to degauss your monitor one in a while
You could also hibernate and flip the power switch afterwards, if you’re on a desktop.
🤭and sometimes, if you wake your linux things go to shit and all you see is black screen and white mouse on it
Sometimes super+ctrl+alt+F8 saves me and I can restart PC from TTY, and sometimes, there is only a flashing cursor. In second case, I have to take hard measures and forcefully manually restart it
(Yes nvidia card with latest proprietary driver and kde on wayland) -> everything latest meaning from endeavour/arch/aur repos.
Just shut it off when you arent using it like a normal person.
unless you’re gonna use it later, like in case you have a bunch of programs open that you’d need to reopen and open a bunch of project files
edit: for some reason my train of thought went everywhere other than the rails at the start
Nvidia users having to shutdown anyway because the computer will hang when trying to put it to sleep:
It didn’t hang up for me on Linux; though I had to disable sleep anyways since after waking up it seemed like every frame had an error and was logging said error into a growing 500 GB syslog
