Let me start by explaining where I’m coming from. I’m pretty much a standard Windows user. I liked XP, I was ok with 7 and ok with 10. But overall I don’t like a lot of things about Windows I think we can all agree on; business practices, spying, lack of customization, cost, etc.
In the past, I have tried to move to Linux more than once including a failed dual boot situation. There are things I really, really like about Linux that I can’t believe aren’t part of Windows. Despite that I really hate Linux. I’ll explain that opinion so you can trash me with facts. Just understand that this is the way I see it.
First, being primarily a Windows user means I am uncomfortable with using all of the little squiggles around the outside of the keyboard to get things done. At one point I was using the most Windows-like version where I could click and download a package which was fine, but eventually I found one that had to be done manually, so this feels like inconsistency. In the dual boot situation I found myself using Windows constantly because I could not get online with Linux for some reason, which meant I had to boot in Windows to research the problem only in the end to have people tell me that the components of the computer I built were too new and I would have to wait for someone to write drivers. There are a lot of equivalent programs in Linux to Windows and I use some of them now, like Open Office, Audacity(which I love), Firefox( which I hate) and probably more I can’t think of at the moment. I currently have a computer attached to my TV that I made really cheap from parts I had laying around and I’m running Mint on it. The only thing it is used for is watching YouTube videos on the big screen, usually exercise videos. It IS a problem. It loads up ridiculously slow.
So my experience has been bad overall every time I try and yes I realize I’m not doing it right. I’m not a typical Linux user.
But here’s the thing, I WANT to be a Linux user mostly because I hate Microsoft so much. And now especially because according to Lemmy Windows 11 is a shit show of advertising and other crap and apparently my roughly 2 year old and still fairly powerful desktop does not meet their requirements due to that stupid chip it needs to have. I do not wish to buy a new computer and I do not wish to be a Windows slave again.
So the question is, is there hope for me giving this another try? I’m not a power user but I do use my computer for a lot of things. I will get specific here.
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Surfing the net. It needs to NOT lag or fail to connect.
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I play games with my friend online every Monday. Most of the games are on Steam. So far we have played: Borderlands Borderlands 2 Borderlands 3 Borderlands the pre sequel Tiny Tina’s Wonderland Diablo 4 Grimm Dawn Aliens fire team elite
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I edit videos. I use Sony Vegas pro 13. It was expensive and I’m used to it. It is important to me.
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I do some word processing and spreadsheet stuff. Currently I use Open Office as I mentioned.
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Audio conversion and manipulation with Audacity.
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Drawing and photo manipulation. I use a variety of programs. The most important ones in order are CorelCad. It is basically AutoCad and was expensive to buy and I’m used to it. Fusion 360, also important for 3D printing. Prusa slicer for 3D printing and one called Photofiltre. It’s a simple free program I believe does have a Linux version. These are important to me.
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Programming microcontrollers for projects using the Arduino IDE.
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I use a program called Vetric which programs the tool path for my CNC router.
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A number of smaller more rarely used programs like one to convert a font into hexadecimal, one that normalizes mp3 files, one that captures what I do on the screen, etc.
If I had it my way, I would just continue using Windows 10. I more or less know how it works and it really doesn’t give me any problems. However with this end of life thing approaching I will eventually need to migrate somehow for security’s sake, right? I mean I don’t even know if half of these programs will be compatible with Windows 11.
I should also mention that I’m a goal oriented person. I just want to use it, I don’t want to tinker with it. That goes for pretty much any tool. I consider the OS a tool.
So given that encyclopedia of information, do you think I could/should give Linux another try? If so, which distro should I go with that will be the most compatible with my hardware and usage?
Regarding hardware, I’m not home now so just genetically I have an AMD Rhyzen 7 processor, a Radeon video card, sort of upper mid tier, 32 GB of RAM, decent motherboard and a boatload of storage.
Feel free to ask questions and I will now don my flameproof jacket for the absolute shit storm of criticism in guessing that’s heading my way. Thank you in advance.
It’s a tough call man. I’ve been using Linux for nearly 20+ years. It’s great, it always has been great. There are a lot of cliches where people just assume because they are a tech enthusiast with Windows they should be competent under Linux as well. It’s just the wrong mindset. I don’t know shit about Windows and the times I have to use it, I just look like a moron. All that to say, your approach needs to be, how does one do this under Linux. What is the Linux way of doing things. The same goes hand in hand for Mac or Windows or and of the other Unix-like operating systems.
If you are stuck on Windows for now, that’s okay, but you should just keep moving little by little toward Linux. Kind of like using OpenOffice, using Audacity, your Arduino software does have a Linux version. Arduino IDE is based on Electron which is basically Chrome. So, if you can run Chrome you can run your Arduino software.
I’m not sure why you were told your hardware was too new to be supported. They could have just switched you to a mainline kernel, even mainline mesa drivers for gaming. There are so many open standards these days, most hardware is supported by default. I can see too old or, for example, you have a cheap Chinese network card that never had Linux drivers written. I’m guessing that’s not your actual problem though. If it were, you could easily buy a cheap network card that is, Linux compatible. You don’t need to replace the entire system just for one peripheral.
Your CNC router software is supported through Parallels for Mac (basically you’ll use a Windows virtual machine), so you can do the same under Linux.
I don’t know about that Cad software, obviously you can run them in a VM no problem. Same with the Sony Vegas Pro software.
I don’t think you are stuck on Windows. You might need to run some of your specialized software in a VM, for the times you need it. Probably wont be bad, you could easily have the Window VM run on a second Virtual Workspace (Similar to Task View which Windows added in Windows 10 I believe) and you just switch to the Virtual Workspace when you need it. Just make sure you pass the GPU through to the VM. Same thing with your CNC machine, you want to pass that through to your VM (just a couple mouse clicks, usually), that’s what they would be doing with Parallels on Mac.
You can try WINE for things. I don’t use WINE to run Windows software. I do use the Proton variant for gaming though. I have used Wine to run the PS5 controller update software for updating my PS5 controller firmware a couple times. I don’t own a PS5 so I have to use the software. That would never have happened ten years ago. But I do all that through Bottles which handles all the WINE and Proton nonsense for me.
It might be better if you go to a LUG (Linux User Group) nearby and get help with all this. None of it’s hard, but the first couple times, things will probably seem overwhelming. Windows isn’t easier, it’s just that everybody is used to all the noise you have to deal with in Windows and so they don’t notice all the crap they deal with. I’m sure the same for me on Linux.
Thanks. I’ll definitely be looking at this thread to figure things out. The problems I was having was like 10 years ago, but I was under the impression this was how it would be.
Just as a heads up LibreOffice is preferred over OpenOffice. It’s basically the same program but it actually gets updates etc. OpenOffice is dead.
Personally, I think you are probably stuck with Windows for now, since I imagine you really don’t want to learn a whole slew of new programs (that might or might not do everything you want) in my very uninformed opinion.
Internet connectivity should be mostly fine but that can depend on hardware sometimes.
Gaming is in general not a problem if you have Steam, Heroic, Lutris, Bottles and Protonup QT. But look into ProtonDB to see which runs and which doesn’t.
But for much of the professional software it will become a hassle. You could look into CrossOver by Codeweavers (a paid version of Wine) and see what compatability that brings. But for the most part I think you would probably have to setup a Windows Virtual Machine with GPU Passthrough.
Thank you. This will be helpful if I go that way
…apparently my roughly 2 year old and still fairly powerful desktop does not meet their requirements due to that stupid chip it needs to have. I do not wish to buy a new computer and I do not wish to be a Windows slave again.
https://github.com/builtbybel/Flyby11 will allow you to install on
anyolder hardware by using the Server install method that skips the hardware check for TPM. That said, a 2 year-old PC could actually have TPM. My 5 year-old gaming rig does, and so does my 2015 with an i5 6xxx. Maybe your PC TPM defaults to a disabled state, or perhaps it really is not present.Audacity(which I love)…
Tenacity is the preferred, privacy respecting fork of Audacity. Platform agnostic.
But here’s the thing, I WANT to be a Linux user…
And you can, but it sounds like you should probably keep using dual boot and learn Linux as you go. You can likely play your games on Linux (check protondb.com for compatibility and tips), but your list of required apps may be beyond your current ability to use on Linux.
However, with some time and experimentation, I suspect you’ll find the tools available for Linux might be superior to what you use in Windows. Like your mp3 normalization options are likely more varied and robust in Linux.
I do not wish to be a Windows slave again.
The only way to achieve this is to keep working with Linux to gain experience. In the meantime, there are tools and methods to limit the spying and put control of your Windows PC back in your hands.
You can block unwanted version upgrades with an app like Steve Gibson’s incontrol.
Install your chosen app-level firewall to block telemetry.
Utilize one of the popular privacy scripts (disclaimer: can easily break functionality of your PC, but easy to roll back, just make sure to save the corresponding reversion script to negate tie changes) like privacy.sexy to disable unwanted features of Windows.
All that said, it sounds like your first Linux experience had been somewhat typical, with some bumps and learning involved. I applaud you for the effort 👏. Keep learning and keep trying to move more of your workflow to Linux. The past five years has brought a lot more from being Windows only into Linux then ever before.
Wow this was a lot of great information. Thank you so much.
I was hesitant to ask the question here but now I’m glad I did. I assumed my computer didn’t have the chip because a Windows check said it didn’t meet. I didn’t know it was something that could be enabled in firmware. If that’s not the case I’m glad there might be a work around too!
Controversial opinion, just use Windows. There is no reason for you to switch and every reason for you not to. No Linux distribution will do everything thing you want and no Linux distro will do half the things you mentioned without significant tinkering. If you really want to keep Windows 10 just use Windows 10 LTSC, alternatively you can just switch to Windows 11. Granted Windows 11 is worse than Windows 10 but itll be more than serviceable for your needs.
Did you not read the part saying his PC is not supported for win11??
Official requirements can be bypassed
I know but you never suggested such a thing in your comment. The person asking might not know this
If you don’t want to fiddle, Linux Mint Cinnamon.
Try this: 1) download a Linux distro ISO (recommend Mint Cinnamon because of help forum) 2) Use ETCHER to burn it onto an EMPTY USB stick (4G is enuf; ERASE it if it’s not new). 3) Insert the stick into a USB port, reboot and get into your BIOS. 4) Do not use SecureBoot, Try to use a LEGACY boot instead of UEFI (if your BIOS has that option).
4. Now use your BIOS to boot from the stick.If all of that works you have booted from the stick and see the Mint OS Icon. Then you’re in a ‘LIVE USB’ session with the option to install Linux to your drive at the upper left (I think, don’t use Cinnamon). No hurry. Just live there, and maybe go through all of that 1 or 2 more times.
Just take time to get used to the OS for a while. You need to make sure that there’s room on the drive for the install. 20-25GB is plenty. So your ‘BOATLOAD’ should be more than enough. (You can also install it on -another- drive if you like. SO easy!)
Find a web page or video that comfortably helps YOU understand the install process (a snap, until you get to the important page where you tell it WHERE to install the OS). Be sure you have prepared the drive (if need be) before you do the install. ENJOY (I’ve done a -lot- of LM installs. Only ONCE from a Windows environment, NEVER again.)
In case of any snags, the busy and help Mint Forum page is here: https://forums.linuxmint.com/
Man you guys are being so helpful and polite. Thank you so much. Really appreciate this.
Linux is different to Windows; to use it you have to accept the differences to a certain extent.
Having said that, the examples you give of frustrations sound like you didn’t get far with Linux, and I wonder if part of the problem is just making the effort to get used to it? But I also wonder whether Linux is just not for you, given your software needs.
A few things you should be aware of for your use scenarios:
- You can install a virtual machine and run Windows in it, with a license if you want, for your edge scenarios of specific programs you use. It will take some minor effort to do but I have Windows 11 installed in a KVM machine on my Linux machine for the rare times I want to use my Work Office account. I prefer it to the web version. However it will be more problematic for high end graphics software; you will probably want a dual boot system for native graphics access for that. There is a route of getting a second graphics card just for your virtual Windows machine but I’m not sure that sounds like a route you’d want to go down?
- Many games just work now with Linux and Steam Proton (or other Wine/Proton derived systems). However if you want to guarantee they work all the time then again you will have to dual boot windows. I have Windows 10 installed on it’s own drive on my PC; I haven’t used it in months but it’s there for gaming in case something doesn’t work. So yes I have 2 windows licenses on my PC; rarely used but there to cover all use scenarios for me. That is extreme and in your case I’d probably just keep 1 and dual boot but both are doable.
- Linux is much more user friendly than it used to be, and drivers are generally well kept up to date including for new devices but there is often a lag for the cutting edge systems as manufacturers target Windows for launch. I would take a different attitude to you regarding devices - if they’ve not got Linux drivers I don’t want to be stuck with a lemon device in my PC. Your graphics card (AMD) is well supported; and I’d be amazed if your network drivers don’t work in this day and age - use a USB live distro to test those things
- If you are going to use Linux then I’d strongly recommend KDE as a desktop as the default paradigm is very familiar for windows users. It is also very flexible and you can make pretty much any GUI you like out of it, but at the start it just works and is familiar. I would not touch Gnome if I were you - it is very different to windows and you don’t seem like the kind of person who would tolerate it’s restrictive design philosophy. Other windows like DEs include Cinnamon on Linux Mint (There are many more but I think Cinnamon or KDE would be best, depending very much on which Distro you want to use).
- There are open source alternative for much of the software you use, but some of what you use may also run natively using Wine. However you’d have to be prepared to tinker and test to get there.
Overall however, I’d suggest that if you’re so locked in to propriety software then Linux may not be right for you. While you may prefer it to Windows in many ways on paper, ultimately the companies whose propriety products you have bought and like are not generally interested in supporting Linux. So you have a choice - either you accept being locked in to your vendors including their choice of windows, or you look at Linux supporting alternatives (open source or propriety), or you accept a hybrid set up of dual booting (which didn’t work for you previously). Only you can decide whether you’re willing to make the multiple shifts in preferred software you’d probably need to make to be able to use Linux as your daily driver.
If you do want to go down the Linux route; then personally I’d suggest OpenSuSe Leap - it’s KDE based, it’s a stable point release base, and has decent support, and is designed to be both a home desktop distro and a more professional work device. Linux Mint would also be a good place to start - Cinnamon is very windows like, and there is loads of support on the web as it’s so popular.
Thank you. All comments are welcome. And so far, no flames. Woohoo!
Distro wise mint is probably your best bet.
Dependency on proprietary software will be a problem. Maybe it will run via wine. Maybe not. Maybe it will work for a short bit and then inexplicably break. It’s proprietary and there isn’t much recourse. However there are a lot of good alternatives that are available under multiple operating systems.
My two biggest recommendations are look for systems that are either made to run Linux like something from tuxedo or system 76. Or spend $100 on eBay getting an old Lenovo Dell or HP business tower. (Not laptop. Laptop can get into some really weird fucky proprietary stuff.) They’re generally built from solid lowest common denominator Parts with wide support.
Dual booting sounds nice. But it gets to be a real hassle most the time unless you absolutely need it. If you have a system separate just to use and learn Linux on. You WILL have a better time. 4th and 6th generation Intel i7 business Towers are still extremely usable today.
Thank you.
The nice thing is. If you have a separate system running Linux etc. Even if for whatever reason you are not able to completely replace some of the windows software. You can simply unplug or take the windows Tower off the network or block its access to the internet but still have access to the vital software you need. It will give you a lot more flexibility and security
I think you need to stick with windows, there’s a lot of specialized software you listed (Vegas, CNC machine) that I don’t think will work well.
I’m really afraid it won’t work with the new windows either. Unless I maybe disconnect from the web and continue using 10 and have a new machine for 11. But that’s a pain and quite frankly what I’m trying to avoid.
I usually build a new computer every few years. I get real excited to buy new stuff and watch a bunch of videos and do a bunch of research on the latest stuff, spend a bunch of time doing cable management and maybe customizing stuff only to turn it on and remind myself that it’s just a computer and the user experience really isn’t much different than before. I would build a powerhouse only to have Windows stumble on something a simple as opening a new window. A friggin supercomputer will not open that window any faster for whatever reason. It seems like the only thing that improves is gaming capability, but frankly I don’t really run games that are that intensive.
I’m not sure what options you have friend, it’s pick your poison either way. You’re dependent on software vendors that support Microsoft, in turn you are equally dependent on Microsoft. That includes playing by their requirements, buying a motherboard or PC with a TPM chip and accepting ads in your user experience.
You could hack together a VM, or use WINE with the unsupported software. You mentioned you’re not looking to tinker and desire something seamless - Maybe you’ll have better luck than I did with Vegas, there’s been a lot of improvements with WINE - but my experience was subpar from windows with this specific software.
A third option is to remove your dependencies on vendors that don’t support Linux, and learn equivalents. Facing this similar fork, I chose to learn and replace Vegas with Davinci Resolve, and I haven’t regretted it yet. But I also respect you have your workflow.
I rarely suggest anyone stick with windows, but the scenarios you’ve presented is exceptional.
Edit- additional note on the software concerns in W11, it’s not that different from 10, like at all. I’m massively confident they will continue working without problem.
Thank you. You’re mentioning if DaVinci is the kind of thing I was looking for. Would you say it’s as powerful as Vegas?
the list of things you’d like to be able to seamlessly transition over is kinda… well, that’s a lot of stuff. anyone claiming you can pull this off whilst maintaining any semblance of productivity is deluded.
my advice would be, get yourself a second machine. powerful hardware is stupid cheap nowadays and you can get a semi-competent laptop in the $100 region. take your time setting it up, always having the option to tear everything down and start over as it’s not your primary rig. start with a beginner friendly distro, Mint or Ubuntu, try 'em both and see which you like better.
then, just start doing the things from the list. item 1, easy-peasy. item 7 next, huh that was easy. next item 4, then 5… you’re gradually transitioning, without any downtime and always having the fallback option of your existing setup. before you know it, you’re a Linux user!
by the time you figure all this stuff out, you’ll have the knowledge and confidence to nuke windows for good and jump in both feet, not to mention - your laptop as a fallback.
Alternatively can try this in a VM or dual-boot
I disagree on both them counts. for an intermediate user, sure. for a try-to-dip-their-toes first-time user, absolutely not.
VMs are OK for one-off or compartmentalised tasks. running linux on anything but bare metal is a sub-optimal experience and off-putting. it’s essential for the user to get the feedback in snappy and satisfying response to their actions, which is easily accomplished even on 10-year old hardware, while being a tall order for any VM deployment. not to mention, any intense graphic use (an important part of OP’s spec) is nothing but crap in that scenario.
dual-boot scenarios are not for beginners. a) you can fuck something up and thus relieve you of a safe fall-back and b) you can’t switch between workstation #1 and #2 concurrently, reboots are jarring focus breakers.
Just a few things I would like to add.
First, switch to Libreoffice when you can as OpenOffice is not being maintained all that well. As far as Linux goes I see know reason you should force yourself into it. Windows 11 is not that bad and I get the impression you want things to be the Windows way. Linux has gotten significantly better but it sounds like you want a Windows clone which is not possible. Linux will never be a drop in replacement for Windows especially if you need perfect compatibility. I will note that your lag issue is probably tied to YouTube defecting Firefox and throttling the connection.
With that being said, if you are serious about switching I would get a separate computer to use and learn on. Your workflow will need to shift so it is better to have a separate device to play with. You can pickup a old business machine for around $100. (Or possibly free if you to a junk yard)
Oh wow, wish I had known about libreoffice earlier. It’s fine for what I do but sometimes I pass files to other people with office products and the version open office saves in is pretty old.
Ok so tell me if I’m right here. It sounds like laptops are very difficult to switch to Linux but it is possible to buy one already set up. My laptop is an ancient hand me down from my sister that is at best 8 years old. So I’d actually be willing to buy a new one of those.
When I tried Linux before one of the things I liked a lot was that I could set up a dark theme for the OS and nearly every program I added took on the same dark theme. Friggin awesome. It also felt pretty snappy to me.
If I had my way, it definitely would not be a Windows clone. My biggest concern is with the learning curve and not really understanding how to fix some problems. I remember once getting hung up on trying to place a file in a folder and it just wouldn’t let me do it and it seemed to take a lifetime to find out it was a security measure and I should have been placing it somewhere else I actually had access to (or I guess using some kind of admin privilege or setting or something). It seemed like a silly thing to get hung up on.
Linux works fine on most laptops so I’m not sure where that came from. I will point out that a old laptop is probably going to be a clunky experience due to the bad battery life and failing touchpad.
The thing you need to realize about Linux is that it is highly modular. Each layer depends on the layers below it down to the hardware. If a upper layer starts having issues there is a good chance the problem lower in the system. I don’t really have much context to why you couldn’t put a file in a folder but my guess is that the application didn’t have permission to access that folder. These days the modern desktops have a way to auto escalate permissions but that’s a fairly new thing.
If you want to switch to Linux, you will have to learn how to use the command line. That’s basically mandatory. But you can still use a Linux desktop with minimal terminal usage.
My best recommendations for newbies is:
1- Linux Mint
2- Ubuntu (Or preferably Kubuntu in my opinion as it’s more Windows-like)
3- Debian Stable which is the distribution upon which the two previous ones are built upon, but it’s a bit rough around the edges and lack some quality of life tools to make it a bit easier to use, like a tool to detect your hardware and download and install relevant drivers and also installing proprietary codecs for multimedia. Whereas Ubuntu variants and Mint have this out of the box. But, the reward in the long term is a solid, no-bullshit, no-bloat, stable Linux OS with minimal problems. It’s worth the extra work in my opinion.
I wouldn’t recommend jumping into Ubuntu or Debian.
Ubuntu is ok. I don’t think new users would care much about whether their apps are snaps or not.
Debian is ok only if someone wants to put in the time to learn.
Which distro(s) did you try?
I’ve been a linux user for 20-25 years (exclusively for 10), and I find that Linux Mint works pretty well out of the box. I’ve heard others recommend other distros for the same reason, but I’ll let someone with first hand experience recommend them, as Mint is my go-to distro for desktops and laptops.
And just a tip: Take people who go “Don’t use X distro because of Y” with a grain of salt. All distros have their own quirks (Mint’s being relatively old packages), but whatever works for you is the best distro for you, and that’s the most important part.
I recently got myself a brand spanking new and relatively high end laptop, and everything worked out of the box. The only “problem” was that I wasn’t satisfied with the wifi performance (it worked, just not as fast as it should), so I installed a different kernel module. ome to think of it, I had to select NVIDIA proprietary driver as well, due to it defaulting to an open source driver. But it’s just a few mouseclicks (yes, all GUI) to get that sorted.
Allegedly AMD has better support for linux than NVIDIA does, so I guess that’s a good omen for you.
The rest worked flawlessly, including the proprietary lenovo hotkeys that requires it’s own Lenovo program on windows - I was prepared to live without those, but I’m glad I don’t have to. Fn+Q to change power/performance/cooling balance on the fly is pretty neat.
I have no idea how to edit videos, and I’ve never touched any software for doing so, so I can’t help you there. Same goes for CAD stuff. I think it’s safe to assume that doing arduino stuff on linux is well supported, though.
Well I did this a long time ago so I don’t really remember. Some guy had prepared a version that was chock full of stuff that Windows users would want. It was pretty cool but I think maybe too much.
I believe the second try was Ubuntu.
I have an old laptop I use as well. It has Windows 10 on it too. I don’t know what to do there either. I mean screw Microsoft for making people literally throw away perfectly good computers.
I don’t know the answer to all your issues, however, I have seen these distros been mentioned elsewhere in similar discussions so maybe have a look and see if they fit your profile:
I have not used the ones above, I am using PopOS myself, so throwing that hat in the ring as well.
Thank you.