Because all the conversation I’ve seen has been against Trans Women going to women’s restrooms. Which is strange to me because, according to the twisted concept of TERFs, Trans men are not men (even though they are), but “women”.
Aren’t they worried about “women” going into men’s bathrooms?
Every time a women came into the men’s bathroom I just assumed it was urgent and that the women’s bathroom was occupied or closed. Never had any different thought.
Edit: I don’t think any sane man would care if a female, trans, cyborg or alien would go pee.
Respect my right to be robophobic
Sounds like a closeted robosexual.
I remember being at a bar… Queue out the door for the ladies, mens almost empty.
One of the girls in the queue said something like “I wish we could use the mens” as a comedy throwaway.
I said “do it, if you’re comfortable doing so, we don’t care”. I mean, there are still stalls with doors right?
Half a dozen very relieved ladies bolted for the mens.
I like to think I made some people’s evening just a little better that night.
The most satisfying part is when it doesn’t even affect our line. Women are heading to our stalls where as most men are using urinals so we still get through just as fast
That’s the really crazy thing: the entire bathroom issue was manufactured in the first place because the damn signs on the doors never had any legally-enforced meaning to begin with!
My wife followed me into the men’s room last night in Vegas cause the ladies room was closed for cleaning. Didn’t realize anyone was in there, but a dude that happened to be going number 2 bolted outta there like the flash, it was kinda funny.
One night out my partner and I got separated, leaving me with her handbag, I needed a piss so I took it in to the toilet with me, should have seen the reaction of the two men in there.
I mean, *phobes have little problem with also being hypocrites.
No. They should be considering this, given that plenty of trans men look like large and intimidating men (because they are), and they’ll be forced to use womens’ restrooms if the TERFs had their way.
Ultimately, the restroom issue is only superficial. TERFs (and other bigots) will pick issues like this, but they don’t actually care about the issues they’re yelling about. What they really care about is keeping their privilege and their sense of superiority. And that requires having a “them” group to put down and exclude, to clutch their pearls around.
So when you see irrational takes like the restroom thing, remember that it’s irrational because it’s not actually important to them (though they themselves likely don’t realize that).
They also care about ruining trans people’s lives in any way possible. I’m sure there are plenty of transphobes who simply haven’t thought the bathroom thing through, but don’t forget the other reason they’d be happy to put passing trans men in women’s bathrooms: it forces them into an impossible decision. When an angry mob drags a trans man out of the women’s toilet, you think they’re going to listen to protestations of being AFAB? If anything, that’d just rile them up further. So a when someone is faced with the decision of choosing either the room they’re least likely to be noticed in, or the one the law technically assigned to them, they may instead choose to stay home. They may even start considering detransitioning. This is a feature, not a bug.
Yeah, that’s the “put down and exclude” part. The thing is, though, is that the transphobes don’t believe it’s because they want to ruin trans folks’ lives. In fact, they believe they’re doing the Right Thing™. Pressuring people to stay closeted is something they’re definitely attempting to do, but they genuinely believe it’s for everyone’s benefit, even the trans folks (again, this is irrational). They don’t take pleasure from the pain and discomfort they cause (at least not consciously), they take pleasure from feeling righteous.
Idk, there seem to be plenty of bigots that take pride in hurting us. The cruelty is the point for them. Some of them genuinely believe we are groomers and pedos. And I swear to science that if anyone ever calls me one of those IRL, they will get punched in the face. I may end up getting the shit kicked out of me or worse, but that is something I’d wear on my shoulder proudly.
TERFs don’t want trans people using any toilet. TERFs want to push trans people out of public life, and ideally to stop existing all together, by making existing in it as difficult as possible.
Amazing how hard it is to express the TE in TERF is an absolute.
And the feminist part seems silent. It’s almost as though these people are misogynistic.
As far as I can tell, no. No one ever seems to care. I can only assume it’s because they view men as the “dominant” sex and women as “weak”.
Which is bizarre cause it’s incredibly fucking sexist.
I think the main reason people aren’t as concerned about trans men using men’s restrooms is that they don’t pose any more physical threat to the men in there than any other man would. A trans woman using the women’s restroom, on the other hand, is seen - fairly or not - as potentially introducing a physical dynamic that some people find more concerning.
I mean, even a cis woman could walk into a men’s restroom and most guys wouldn’t care. At my local swimming hall, there’s often a cleaning lady washing the floors in the men’s locker and shower area while guys are completely naked around her, and no one bats an eye. Now imagine the chaos if a 50-year-old male cleaner walked into the women’s showers - completely different reaction.
For the same reason most don’t care if a trans male athlete wants to play against cis men but they do care when it’s the other way around.
What about a trans man going into the women’s restroom? Why don’t they care about that?
::: spoiler Because they’re stupid :::
Cis women don’t care about a trans man going into the women’s restroom because they’re stupid?
I’m not sure what you’re getting at, but I’d argue the opposite - many cis women would care about a trans man entering their restroom, just like they’d care about a cis man doing the same. From their perspective, it’s often about perceived male presence, regardless of the person’s gender identity.
They would if they knew trans men existed. But there are women who make their entire political identity about trans people, and still don’t know trans men exist. Because they’re stupid.
They celebrated when Noah Ruiz (a trans man) was assaulted by men for being in the “wrong” bathroom (he had been told to go to the woman’s.)
This brings up an interesting question or I’m not close enough to the problem to have thought of. I’ve seen women use men’s rooms plenty of times and no one cares.
- Is it because I’ve lived in tolerant areas?
- Am I Just too obtuse?
- are they that illogical that women in the wrong restroom are not objected to but trans men are “for being a woman in the wrong restroom”
The transness is the big key. They are okay with women in men’s restrooms as long as they are women, but a trans man attempting to use a men’s restroom is a boundary violation - because it’s part of that man’s statement that he is trans.
It’s a deep insecurity - they live in worlds that are set in stone, and recognizing that human variation is infinitely more complicated than the boxes we try to shove people in is terrifying.
Doesn’t this just follow long established gender norms (self referential joke intended)?
As a thought exercise assume two genders and consider your reaction toward using the wrong restroom.
- most people would be up in arms over a man using a woman’s bathroom
- it may be novel for a woman to use the men’s room but does anyone really care? Think of a big event where there’s a huge line at the women’s room. Aside from annoyance at potentially having to wait, do you really care if some of the women use the men’s room? Or a high end bar/club? I’ve been in several that have a woman as a restroom attendant and my only concern is why do I need an attendant, why do I need to tip someone I’d prefer wasn’t there, regardless of gender. Again, I’ve never heard anyone complain.
So it actually does make sense for this issue to be an outgrowth of long standing societal norms, but maybe it’s an opportunity to have a deeper discussion about why we do that and whether/when it’s warranted at all. We had shared bathrooms in college and everyone survived (although I was always frustrated that I never used it as an opportunity for “fun”)
They don’t want trans men in women’s bathrooms either. They want trans people to not be able to use public bathrooms at all.
Here is a video in which Katy Montgomerie (a fairly well know trans campaigner) discusses this: https://youtu.be/vmH6S_jwbl4
It’s the definition. Trans exclusionary RADICAL FEMINIST.
They put women’s rights first.
It’s absolutely not my place to gatekeep feminism, but…
IMHO They’re not practicing feminism (defined as empowering women) the trans exclusion turns it into radical misandry (disempowering men) by excluding any trans people from their definition of women: they consider transfem and transmasc people as men.
Only their narrow definition of woman. And as an old cishet woman myself, I say the only thing radical about them is the amount of conservatism they’re channelling. There’s nothing feminist about that.
Their logic is that women are a historically oppressed group and that certain rights are a zero-sum game. They would say someone who has been born a man has forfeited male privilege and therefore don’t have a right to anything which “belongs” to women.
If our discourse wasn’t so polarised people wouldn’t become entrenched like that but social media has made ration/empathetic discussion impossible.
Trans people are also a historically oppressed and marginalized group, so much so that history has hidden a lot of them. That oppression has also been rooted in misogyny. So any attempt to uproot misogyny which ignores this fact is doomed to fail.
