By this i mean, grandma checking her email and the IT pro with 10 NAS setup are the perfect linux users.

But us in the middle who pretend we’re smart…its a damn hard road. And then helping others to switch when youre not yet a pro is even harder, though a good learning experience.

Getting games to work perfectly, audio issues, Bluetooth issues, vr setups are far harder to do, running older obscure software, hooking up obscure hardware, using external drives, music production, these are some examples of things that will be extremely hard on linux vs windows for the majority of middle users.

However id say it is worth it if you like learning thousands of weird terms and phrases and putting in many hours of frustration to solve a problem. (Have you tried using floop to Docker the peeble?). It is very satisfying fixing an issue and figuring out why it happened!

Still, when im forced to use windows I see how bad its become, so im sticking with linux!

  • utopiah@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    7 hours ago

    and the IT pro with 10 NAS setup are the perfect linux users.

    Well I’m closer to that. I’m an “IT pro” (I pay my bills by writing software) and I did learn CS at uni… and yet it’s STILL damn hard!

    I think that might be the part that “grandma” (bit sexist and ageist there but going with the example) finds it hard is a given but that professionals are struggling daily is somehow hidden away.

    I can give you examples from just yesterday :

    • my deGoogled Android phone rejected my SIM card yesterday “SIM 1 not allowed”
    • my home IoT server stopped working

    and few others smaller problems. So… I had to find ways to fix that which lead me to learn that :

    • some bug into HomeAssistant (my IoT server gateway) led me to restart its container, without having to restart the device itself
    • my Android ROM has a “Reset Network Settings” within the “Reset Options” menu

    The irony is that some people who are not professional might even know about the later one but I didn’t. So… my whole point :

    TL;DR: IT is hard for everyone because it’s complex (lots of moving parts) and always changing (“updates” are not just “better” but different) so we ALL must keep on learning.

  • Croquette@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    16
    ·
    16 hours ago

    You’ve used Windows for so long that you don’t remember how it was when you first started using it.

    This isn’t different than what you are doing with Linux. The flow gets better and better and you will acquire the experience needed to navigate the issues. It takes time, that’s all.

    • yamamoon@lemmings.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      7 hours ago

      True, but there’s a lot of stuff in the free software ecosystem that is just jank.

      I expect things not to work at this point and don’t get surprised when they don’t. It’s part of how we pour way more resources into abusive technologies over ethical ones. We can continue to be part of the problem (like a useful idiot), or pick our heads up and work towards the solution.

      • Croquette@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        5 hours ago

        If you stick to popular free software, the jank is limited.

        The Linux userspaces have a lot of enthusiastic people that create their own software and share it, and thus it seems like there is lot of janky stuff (because there is).

        It feels like Windows has been captured by corporations and so the market is competitive. There isn’t much space for enthusiast developpers to tackle a different vision of a popular software.

        So yeah, I agree with you, lots of janky software in Linux, but that’s the beauty of it IMO. If you stick to popular softwares, the jank is somewhat equivalent to Windows.

      • MyNameIsRichard@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        4 hours ago

        True, but there’s a lot of stuff in the free software ecosystem that is just jank.

        A lot of free software is built to scratch the authors itch. If you choose to use it as well, that’s on you. There’s nothing stopping you from forking it and making it work how you want it… except time.

  • MimicJar@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    10
    ·
    16 hours ago

    But us in the middle who pretend we’re smart

    The trick you’ll learn is that everyone is just pretending. The more your learn the more you realize you don’t know.

  • monovergent@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    11
    ·
    edit-2
    21 hours ago

    Still, when im forced to use windows I see how bad its become, so im sticking with linux!

    That’s the right attitude. A lot of the comfort of Windows comes down to habit and mere exposure. Every Windows user who dives beyond the surface also spends a lot of time learning, but with the added burden of having to sift through every forum post suggesting sFc /ScAnNoW. And if you keep the same hardware for a few years, the Linux experience ages like a fine wine as drivers improve and features get some subtle polish.

    Sometimes I wonder if my health takes a toll each time I help someone set up Windows. I can literally feel my heart rate increase as I go through the privacy-related settings.

  • data1701d (He/Him)@startrek.website
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    7
    ·
    24 hours ago

    External drives? Usually on most distros and file managers, it’s just one click.

    I have had a bit of a horrid time with Bluetooth, though, especially when it comes to audio. However, I will say Linux allows you to do some nuts things with Bluetooth like emulate a Nintendo Switch controller with NXBT, allowing you to use a PlayStation controller on a Switch with a spare laptop.

    As for audio, I feel like life has gotten much better for the layman since Pipewire.

    I don’t think VR setups are that common, and the Venn diagram of VR owners and Linux users has to be even smaller. I’ve probably only known 2 people who actually own a headset, and both of them were standalone Oculus affairs.

    Overall, I feel like it’s possible to conceptually understand Linux and which config file is while, while Windows registry is an incomprehensible beast. Also, it feels like Linux tends to have better errors that correlate to a specific problem, whereas the same Windows error could be caused by many different things and lead you on a wild goose chase through forum posts filled with generic advice and dead ends.

  • djsoren19@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    22 hours ago

    Gonna be real, I haven’t had to bother with my OS for the past two months, so I disagree with a lot of this post. The take I disagree with the most is that things that would be difficult regardless of OS are somehow “harder” in Linux though. Getting old games to run on Windows is also a massive PITA, and oftentimes can be easier on Linux since you can always just run a WINE instance using whatever version of Windows the game was originally intended for. Same for old obscure software, anything from like the XP era does not play nice with Windows 11 in my experience. It sounds like the bigger issue is that you have learned a lot about Windows, and haven’t learned a lot about Linux, so your knowledge base for Windows is better.

    The actual issue I think is huge for your hypothetical “middle user” is hardware based. Some hardware is just better for running high performance applications on Linux than others. In my fancy, shiny, top of the line rig, my experience in getting games to work is I download them and run them with Proton. I’ve done no troubleshooting, barely use any applications other than Steam for gaming, and so far have not found a game I wanna play that doesn’t work. On my old Nvidia-based rig that I replaced, however, it was the exact opposite story. Nothing ever worked, I was constantly looking through error logs and trying to troubleshoot, and most of the time the answer was hardware that wasn’t properly supported.

  • gray@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    edit-2
    23 hours ago

    I keep breaking my setup when I update my Nvidia drivers. Feels like shit, but I am never going back to windows

    • 柊 つかさ@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      17 hours ago

      My nvidia drivers used to break sometimes but I just switched to dkms drivers and I have had a stable experience for years. Only downside is the upgrade takes a bit longer.

  • Buffalox@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    6
    ·
    edit-2
    1 day ago

    I had a crisis too some years ago, when Windows 7 was the shit, I heard Windows 7 was very good (for Windows).
    So I tried to dual boot Windows 7, goddam a load of crap!! I’ll never believe anyone claiming Windows is good again.
    The structure of security is a bloody mess, providing worse security, while taking control away from the owner of the system.
    And lack of package manager makes it ask for updates at the most inopportune moments. Just a tiny program like Adobe reader was super invasive, and was a major pain in the ass.

    Windows is not in any way user friendly, it’s just what most people are used to.

    • N0x0n@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      11 hours ago

      Window XP was probably the best and last good Windows version… 10 was kinda okay without all the telemetry shit and bloatware.

      Windows 11 feels like macOS with extra steps + spyware on every move, click, clipboard copylpast… Wouldn’t go near that stuff even with full protection and debloat ^^ Just remove that shit and install linux instead.

  • Tehhund@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    edit-2
    15 hours ago

    This is very true. Linux is great if you just want to check email, or if you want to compile your kernel or dig into incredibly esoteric config files. But if you want to do something between those 2 extremes, the learning curve is extremely steep. My Windows box and Mac Mini both do all the things I want them to, but my Linux box keeps breaking and I don’t trust it with anything important. I usually try to do things on Linux first, but when it inevitably breaks I switch over to Mac and get it done in a tenth of the time.

    I’m sure I could get my Linux box to do everything I want. I’m busy and I don’t want to fight with it and spend all my time learning about its eccentricities. I want to point and click and occasionally modify a text file.