Greg Clarke

These are more strawman tactics.

you are arguing that Ukrainian draft officers are having to beat and kidnap men to send to the front line because Ukraine is more accountable to its people

I’m not arguing this point.

I am arguing that it is necause they have a manpower shortage

I have never denied that Ukraine has a manpower shortage.

You are ridiculous

And then you call me ridiculous when I didn’t make the first point and don’t disagree with the second point. This is textbook strawmanning.

I don’t think you’re arguing in good faith using these tactics.

Again, you’re strawmaning. I never argued that Ukraine is a “proper democracy”.

My argument is and continues to be that the Ukrainian government is more accountable to it’s population than the Russian government. Therefore the Ukrainian government must value the opinions of the Ukrainian population more than the Russian government values the opinions of the Russian population.

You’re argument about Syria is a red herring fallacy. I never argued that authoritarian regimes are immune to their population’s opinions. I’ve been arguing that the more authoritarian a government, the less accountable the government to their population.

At this point, I think you are either incapable of logical reasoning or arguing in bad faith.

I’m attempting to align so that we can move our discussion forward. I’m just going to assume that you agree with the following statement.

The Ukrainian government is more accountable to it’s population than the Russian government.

Both democracies and authoritarian regimes have drafts. The difference is that democracies can not continue an unpopular draft because the government will be voted out.

The more accountable a government is to their population, the less that government can afford to enact unpopular policies.

You seem hung up on the fact that Ukraine has a draft. What’s actually important is, does Ukraine have a draft that is supported by the population? If lots of drafted individuals become casualties then the Ukrainian government risks losing the support of the population and being replaced.

This is less of an issue for authoritarian regimes. That is my point and that is a major reason the Ukrainian government values it’s manpower more than the Russian government, there are larger consequences for casualties.

Do you agree that the Ukrainian government is more accountable to it’s population than the Russian government?

I read your responses carefully. This is you apparently agreeing with me and adding that it’s because they have less manpower.

Only because they have fewer men. Have you seen the draft gangpress measures? People are being sent to be cannon fodder, under-equipped and underprepared.

I bought up the democracy index to illustrate that the Ukrainian government requires support from the Ukrainian population more than the Russian government requires support from their population. The Ukrainian government does not value their manpower just because they have less of it, the Ukrainian government is also more accountable to their population (as they are not an authoritarian regime). That is why I brought up the democracy index as it is a quantifiable measure of government accountability to their populations.

the argument that Ukrainian state cherishes the lives of its military aged men is a bit silly

Don’t strawman, my argument is

Ukrainian government values it’s manpower more than Russian government

Do you have any evidence or arguments to counter my initial claim?

The Ukrainian government requires much more support from it’s population than the Russian government. Ukraine is a hybrid regime that was making progress towards joining the EU which has strict democracy requirements for entry. Russia is an authoritarian regime.

That Ukraine even needs so many unmanned weapons points to a deep manpower shortage.

Another possibility is that the Ukrainian government values it’s manpower more than Russian government.

Or even 200% ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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