I’ve always pronounced the word “Southern” to rhyme with howthurn. I know most people say it like “suthurn” instead. I didn’t realize that the way I pronounce it is considered weird until recently!
I’m fluent in both Spanish and English (obv). When speaking English, I’m conflicted on whether I should pronounce Spanish loan words in a shitty English accent like everyone else, or in a proper Spanish accent. So instead I pronounce them as horribly as I can.
Jalapeño is “yah-la-PEEN-oh”. Fajita is “fa-JAI-tah”. Quesadilla gets “QUAY-sah-dilah”
(As a joke of course)
Habanero is pronounced jabaññññero.
ah! WITH the doppler effect?
Even funnier because it doesn’t have the ñ.
Once in a while, I’ll arbitrarily drop juh-LAP-in-oh in a grocery store, just to see who flinches.
You should go the Tralerpark Boys route for pronouncing jalapeño.
.ǝdoɹnƎ uᴉ ƃuᴉʌᴉl uɐᴉlɐɹʇsn∀ uɐ ɯɐ ᴉ ʇnq .ǝɯᴉʇ ǝɥʇ ll∀
Australia is so hellbent on making words sound cute by shortening everything. It makes me giggle even when they are mad.
The sprinkles on bread is adorable
Fairy bread is the best.
My wife has to be careful when picking child names because I will immediately Australianise it to something stupid.
I don’t personally do this, but many people in my family say the days of the week with “dee”. Like “Sundee”, “Mondee”. I think it’s charming, but one of their children said they were weird for saying it that way.
Also, as a programmer, there are some words that programmers use that are abbreviated which I refuse to pronounce the way that others pronounce them because I think it’s weird, but virtually everybody pronounces them different to me.
For example, there is a common keyword in programming languages called “enum”, and most people I know pronounce it as “EE-num”, like it rhymes with “ME dumb”. But “enum” is short for “enumeration”, so I pronounce it as if it’s the first two syllables of “enumeration”, like “ee-NUUM”. Although I think the normal pronunciation is weird, I don’t say anything to people. I just pronounce it the way that I think it should be pronounced. But on multiple occasions, other programmers have called me out for it and asked why I pronounce it “wrong”.
There are several other programming terms like this, but they don’t immediately come to mind. Enum is the most common example.
Reminds me of my highschool computers teacher who pronounced “modem” as “mo-deem”. Because it’s short for modulator/demodulator.
Spoken language is about communication with the immediate group of people you’re interacting with, and is fluid, so while I agree with the idea you suggest of enum on an intellectual level (as well as several others), using the generally accepted way to pronounce things verbally reduces misinterpretation, so I pronounce things as they are generally pronounced. Spoken language is too ephemeral to be imprecise or use your own flair, IMHO. It’s a communication method that has shared rules, not a self-expression medium that is owned by you alone like what clothes you wear. There’s way more wrong with how the English language pronounces things than a few niche technical terms, but those weren’t decided by any one person. In fact that’s why it’s such a mess, but it’s functional.
Just my opinion from a sociological and practical standpoint. Probably contributing to that, I’m AuDHD and so misinterpretation is something I’ve struggled with my whole life. So precise communication is something I’ve spent a lot of time perfecting, especially at work. For reference, I’ve been a software product analyst, product manager, engineer, and currently architect as well as I used to run a nonprofit focused on ethics in the software industry, so I have had to do a lot of communicating ideas around software at many different levels for decades with both technical and nontechnical people.
So, in my case, enum is programmer jargon and is not something that I’d pronounce at all to a layman or larger audience. I don’t think anybody has ever misunderstood me. I often also simply say “enumeration”. But again, that is still jargon. For a programmer, an enumeration is a data type, and for the layman, it probably just means something like “numbered things”.
Spoken language is too ephemeral to be imprecise or use your own flair
I would say that this is a good rule of thumb.
But then, how do I put this? I think people who are on the spectrum are much more concerned with misinterpretation than neurotypical people. I understand why, as I’ve struggled with being misinterpreted in the past. Being misinterpreted feels like a major disaster. But I noticed that other people basically assume that they’ll be understood, no matter how poorly their message is conveyed. I suspect that you’ve noticed the same thing. I don’t go that far, but I definitely think there is room for self-expression.
In the end, if you understand and feel comfortable with the normal rules, then you can understand where it’s okay to start to break them. Some estimates say that Shakespeare invented 1700 words in his written works. I’m sure that in the majority of those instances, he expected to be understood, despite using a word that nobody else had ever used.
Your fashion metaphor is actually a pretty good one, I think. There is room for expression, but there are also general guidelines to follow. In a typical office environment, nobody comes in to work nude or wearing a toilet seat around their neck. Okay that’s extreme, but nobody wears tons of jewelry like Mr. T, either. What I’m saying is that, outside of high fashion like you see on runways, people do follow a basic set of clothing rules, some of which are social and not specifically practical, and their self-expression is only built on top of that base.
The basic rules for clothing are to conceal certain areas, to provide comfort and protection. That sort of basic thing. So with that, everybody’s clothes serve that purpose. And then, like I said, there are some social rules. You know, like don’t wear a white dress to a wedding. When people violate those rules, other people notice and are often confused. And once the basic purpose of clothing is met, then there are areas for flair. I would say that the same thing applies to language.
“ee-NUUM” seems like it would roll of the tongue easier than the former and that’s the way I would say it too because of what it’s short for, so I get it!
Over time I switched to saying it like you. It’s more internally consistent for me to pronounce all abbreviations the same as the words being abbreviated. That applies to enum, char, var, serde, num, regex, etc.
sudois spokensoo-dooin my house. Where I live alone.I pronounce it the same as you, and by the way, that’s also the pronunciation listed on Wikipedia.
But I can’t remember how other people that I’ve worked with pronounce it. I’m sure it’s come up, but I just don’t recall.
I think the fact that its configuration file is called sudoers is fairly decisive that other pronunciations are wrong.
My wife says I pronounce crayon wrong. The way she says it, it’s a single syllable word that is the same as the first syllable of cranberry. I say it as two syllables: cray-on.
Being fully honest, I’ve started drawing it out and articulating both syllables more because I know she doesn’t like it.
I say it as two syllables: cray-on.
I have never heard it pronounced any other way. Not American though (and I suppose you may not be either!).
You’re correct. It’s two syllables. My wife is from the east coast and says it like “cran” or “crown” and some people here in the Midwest say it as a single syllable.
Dictionary defines the pronunciation as two though. Crayola, the brand that (essentially) invented them, uses two syllables as well per their commercials.
agghh these comments my eyes the fauxnetics please god why can’t Lemmy have a bigger linguistics community and you mfs wonder why i still use Reddit
There just aren’t many linguists unfortunately. I’m a huge grammar and language nerd but learning IPA takes time and exposure to a lot of sounds you’re not used to. I wish more of the reddit linguists would come over. Even the grammar communities here are dead.
If you start one I will subscribe
Garage.
GraJ
Catch shit for it all the time, but at this point I think it’s more like a harmless Easter egg.
My grandma rolls the R in “Three”, and it’s become a game to get her to say it. She handles it with great humor.
I’m cool to have my own version of that.
You’d feel at home in Ontario.
- Toronto: Tronnah
- Grocery: grosheree
Team grosheree 4 lyf
Anyone who says gro-suh-ree can fuck right off back to whatever prep posh school for fancy people they came from
Anyone using 3 syllables may as well be the queen of England.
Grow-shree
Grow-sree
Always just call it a car hole.
Well ooh la we dah
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Ever since that IT Crowd episode I can’t not pronounce pedestal as “pedal stool”.
How about Chipotle as cheepotole
Friend says Chipoltay
I love this. I say cheese-poodle.
Visiting a town in Maine, US, spelled “Calais.”
Is it the French pronunciation? English but attempting it with “Kuh-lay?”
Oh, no, that’s too much. Ka-liss. Like callous. What.
There are a million of these throughout the US. I think it’s done intentionally as a shibboleth.
I pronounce spigot as “spicket” but that’s normal where I’m from.
My mom had a couple of weird ones that took me a while to unlearn:
Stipend = “stipp-ind”
Antibiotics = “antee-BEE-otics”I say anna-bee-otics. My father is a veterinarian, and would abbreviate antibiotics to anna-bees when speaking with techs about prescriptions. This affected how he’d say antibiotics, and I spent so much time with him over the years I picked up the habit.
It’s pronounced quickly, where if I say it properly I spend conscious thought saying an-tie-bye-otics.
sometimes I accidentally pronounce “C’est la Vie” as “sest lah vy” even though I know its “say la vee” just because I read it first and it lives in my head as that first wrong pronunciation. confuses the hell out of people and I have to explain my foolery
You know the famous mage from Forgotten Realms? I pronounce their name “EL-ah-min-ster”
Oh, I also have a terrible Boston accent so I nearly caused an HR incident when talking about “hooked horrors” aka “hookt ho-ahs” or as my coworker heard “hooked whores”. Horror is the best word to check for a Boston accent with.
What? Why? There’s not even an A in Elminster.
Because I misread it initially as Eliminster and because my mispronunciation became a meme between my friend group. It is cemented forever in my brain as Eliminster.
I pronounce azure as “uh jzer” with emphasis on the second syllable and most other people say “aa jzer” with emphasis on the first.
I over-pronounce Wednesday. Like wed-nes-day. Most people say wendsday.
Also apparently I’m weird for pronouncing jewelry correctly. I pronounce it like it is spelled, and what it means. It is personal ornaments often containing jewels. Jewel-ry. Not Joolery.
Same thing with Aunt. It’s not Ant. There is a U in there.
My wife made fun of me the other day for pronouncing the h in homage. I quickly got my revenge when dictionary.com offered my way as the first pronunciation.
Oh-mage is fancier I will admit.
On Merriam Webster the first pronunciation is without the h. I wonder which way the Brits do it-- everything involving h’s seems to be opposite the US (looking at you, herb).
