- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
Follow-up video to https://lemmy.world/post/32690521
Spoiler alert: the main reason he says the experience “hasn’t been great” is because shortly before posting the video his Linux install mysteriously broke and he had no idea why. Therefore, he recommended dual-booting Windows just in case.
Cue sea of comments explaining that the reason for the error he was getting was that Windows screwed up his bootloader (i.e. the problem was caused by dual-booting to begin with, LOL).
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The other two main TL;DWs are that:
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He justifiably complained about PVP games having non-Linux-compatible kernel-level anti-cheat.
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His benchmark testing showed a big performance difference between Windows and Linux on his system, which has an AMD Radeon 7900 XTX. Being an admitted noob, he didn’t notice that it was an unusual discrepancy and figured that worse gaming performance in Linux was “real,” but a bunch of folks in the comments are telling him that RDNA 3 drivers have a known issue that means the card probably isn’t running at full power and tweaking the settings can probably fix it.
tweaking the settings can probably fix it.
Which is another points against Linux. Stuff should work correctly out of the box. That’s what average user expects.
I helped my mom with her windows install when the update half a year ago nuked keyboard support (I had to use the onscreen keyboard just to login). Before thar I had to forcefully install the correct wifi driver as well to get it working properly. This is was running from their factory installation. Stuff working correctly out of the box is a problem on both platforms.
Oh yeah because spending half a day manually downloading and installing a zillion drivers and their bloat and rebooting between each install is peak ootb-functionality.
Meanwhile I was in CP2077 literally 5 minutes after booting a fresh install of Bazzite. On the exact same computer.
Cringe.
But that responsibility is not on the OS. It’s a vendor and publisher responsibility. When a game doesn’t work on Windows, people don’t blame Microsoft. Admittedly the game was made for Windows. But most publishers and developers will give the same response to gamers, “fuck off, the game was for Windows XP, not W10 or W11. We will remake it and make you pay $60 again to play a game you already played 15 years ago. You are on your own until then.” The vast majority of old games that are still playable, are so through an effort from third parties. Like mod developers and vendors like Valve and GOG keeping compatibility alive.
Linux, as it has become abundantly clear after the SteamDeck and Proton, already makes gaming out of the box extremely easy and entirely viable. It was the other side of the equation who were being dickheads. Or, as an example, like Epic, or Genshin Impact, who intentionally go out of their way to break Linux viability for their games with utmost hatred.
Most shit on windows needs adjustments out of the box to work correctly… That’s just all PCs
That’s the whole thing with consoles is that you don’t have to do that
Most shit on windows needs adjustments out of the box to work correctly… That’s just all PCs
This is just not true of Windows. I trust you aren’t talking about settings in-game, of course.
To your first comment about incompatible anticheat - in must cases it’s a conscious decision the publisher makes. Are We Anti-Cheat Yet it’s a good resource. Personally I find my OS preventing me from being able to run a privacy invading rootkit to be a pro as well.
To the second comment, a good amount of games bench better on Linux, not sure what’s going on with his system so I agree.
Definitely unfortunate to see a creator publishing content without first doing some research but that’s more and my common nowadays.
I am kind of shocked about the 7900 xtx. I have the same GPU and I am getting good performance under Linux.
I did some just for fun benchmarking on Doom The Dark Ages last night and I expected Linux to be slightly slower due to the built in ray tracing but I actually got better avgs under Linux. The max frame rate was slightly higher under Windows but the lows were way better under Linux. Overall fairly close performance with a slight edge to Linux.
Maybe Bazzite is doing some magic here. What distro was he using?
Edit: I watched a bit of it, he is running Bazzite, no idea why he is seeing such crazy different numbers. I typically run Proton GE, and I assume he is running Proton Stable, so that would make a dent. People are mentioning low power mode in the comments, but I never have had any issue with that and my 7900 xtx. I haven’t had to do anything weird or out of the ordinary.
I think it’s most likely due to me not playing the same games he is, Stalker 2 is basically the only he is playing that I have played in the past and I’ve haven’t done a comparison of that game on Linux vs Windows.
We dont actually know what was causing the performance differences between linux and windows in Jays testing. I’ve noticed sometimes linux is + or - 20% the performance of windows even with everything configured correct.
I dont like telling people that the preformance is going to be better than windows. I just point out that the preformance on linux is good enough to have an enjoyable experience. I’ll take a 10% preformance hit to escape windows.
I’ve come across multiple times situations which arise from known issues leading to a worsened experience for the user. Linux cannot solve all problems, some are difficult to solve or some require solutions which may not be possible to be resolved but in any case, what the user usually misses, is that the OS identifies these situations and inform the user.
In this case, Jay would’ve really been off better if the user interface was able to simply inform the user of the circumstances or the limitations that it had detected.
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As someone who games on Fedora as my main OS, we need to stop pretending that Linux gaming is all sunshine and rainbows.
Yes, fuck Windows, and it probably did fuck his boot loader, but it doesn’t invalidate his other poor experiences he had with the OS.
Hell, I don’t think that even that was necessarily an invalid experience just because it was caused by Windows. Dual booting is a thing people have to do, especially if they want to play the games that just don’t work on Linux. Even if you don’t like the games personally, they are huge and a lot of people want to play them. Even my main Linux group dual booted recently to play the BF6 beta.
Being elitist and calling people stupid because they had a bad experience will do nothing but hurt Linux gaming. Instead of calling JayzTwoCents stupid because he dual booted for a valid reason, explain alternatives that he could have done to prevent the issue. If we want to grow as a community, we need to provide actual helpful feedback, not by being toxic.
The real problem is people refusing to learn a new workflow. Which is why anyone would need Windows and dualbooting. Yes you can’t tun every software on Linux that you can on Windows and vise versa; which is the whole damn point. There is software which lets you do the same thing just in a different way - but no one wants to explore the option, if it doesn’t look and work exactly the same, people run away.
I play on Linux. I can count on one hand what games won’t launch. One of them was my main game and their decision to drop Linux off a cliff last year has just grown my hatred for them and Microsoft, which I think is a much healthier and normal response than to submissively bend-over backwards and rush to install Windows which is exactly what they were counting on like we’re some kind of sheep; like all the dual booters out there licking boots.
You know most people play games as a fun leisure activity. Telling them that they need to do a ton of work just to participate is going to be a hard sell except to a relatively small group of people. That is a large factor in why so many people buy consoles.
Not to be a contrarian, but this notion that what people need is a frictionless existence, and anything but. Could and should not be expected. Has already led us to a situation were the new generations, in the first time in history, are dumber an less technologically adept.
We need to change this idea. And start asking people to put in some effort.
You have missed my point. People are already putting in effort at their jobs. When they do get time to relax they don’t want to be required to do a second job.
If this was a car community you would be telling me that everyone needs to know how to do their own oil changes. If this was a baking community you would say everyone needs to make their own bread. A gardening community would say growing vegetables.
These can be valuable and rewarding skills, but just because it is important to you doesn’t mean it should be required of everyone.
Haven’t you seen the folks on linkedin? They are bragging about letting AI do their job.(Im not talking about the manual labourers and such.) Just today I learned that doctors using AI to identify cancer are getting worse at identifying it themselves. And yes you should know how to change your oil, bake your own bread and grow your own vegetables. You should also know why the sunset is red and that snails don’t die from eating poisous mushrooms because a liver is required to metabolise it.
Haven’t you seen the folks on linkedin? They are bragging about letting AI do their job.
You do know that there is more than one other person on the internet?
And yes you should know how to change your oil, bake your own bread and grow your own vegetables. You should also know why the sunset is red and that snails don’t die from eating poisous mushrooms because a liver is required to metabolise it.
Yeah, you are a hero who knows it all, gotcha.
Oh no, I have to tinker a bit to play video games, the HORROR!
Being a contrarian doesnt mean you are correct by default.
the idea that you can just jump to linux with zero research needs to go
- no you can’t have every game and program you’re used to
- no you can’t translate windows or mac knowledge
- yes you have to know what partitions, desktop environments, distros, and other bunch of terms mean
- yes you may have to type terminal commands (no one complains about ipconfig when figuring out whether it’s ISP or DNS problem)
- yes there are a bunch of shit tutorials online with copy-paste commands that don’t work
I want to make sure I am understanding what you are intending to communicate correctly. At first I thought you were basically saying, “normies need to get good”. But in reflection you could be attempting to say, “Linux advocates are communicating unrealistic expectations which lead normal people to frustration and disappointment.” Or is your intent something else?
I’m not OP, but I agree with the latter.
Go in expecting to need to learn some stuff, and you’ll probably need to learn less than you expect. Set aside a couple hours for the setup process, you probably won’t need it, but you might. Figure out where to go for help before you start. Leave yourself a backup plan in case you don’t finish.
Linux is pretty easy to use these days, but it’s a new thing and will take getting used to. Expect the worst and be pleasantly surprised when things work out.
This is what burned me. I was promised that Unraid would be easier than windows. Dozens of people all promising me that I would have fewer issues, and I would never need to touch the CLI, and it would take me an afternoon to set up. I have spent 200+ hours on this thing. It’s finally where I want it to be, but if I never, ever touch another Linux OS again I will die happy. If I had gone in with different expectations I would have had a VERY different experience. I wouldn’t have thought that every issue I faced was me being dumb. I have since learned that my experience is totally normal, and I’m pissed off at the people who lied to me.
Yeah, Linux is definitely oversold.
I get where people are coming from, if you say it has a learning curve, fewer people will try it, and a lot of those people would’ve had a fine experience. But those that have a rough time will convince others to not bother.
I think it’s much better to undersell it and have people be pleasantly surprised.
100%. I’m not sure if it would have put me off, but I wouldn’t be as bitter as I am now.
And the next part of the equation is that when you go online to ask for help, people tell you you are a noob and it’s a skill issue.
Well…
What lunatic recommended Unraid to you, lol? Setting up Linux mint is easier than installing Windows. And it‘s free, reliable, open source and not stuffed full of bloatware and subscriptions. Please give it a try if you ever need a new OS
I have 15 HDDs and like unstriped RAID. My options were SnapRAID on Windows or Unraid. TrueNAS only offers striped RAID, and I am not aware of an unstriped RAID feature in Mint.
bit of both i guess? “normies need to get good” could be diluted into “do your research before going to linux”, which in most sensible online discussions is already the recommended way: test things out in a VM, try out different DEs, practice configuring things, finding alternatives to your current workflow, etc etc. it’s a harder sell than “just switch to linux” but IMO it’s absolutely necessary
but my comment is more of a reaction to influencers not doing that at all and making le funny challenge of jumping to linux blind and breaking shit because it’s good content and “trying out linux” is still trending
problem is they must be getting this idea that “linux is so easy and fun and seamless and you don’t have to research anything” from somewhere, which i do think is probably way more from people in their audience hyping up linux and not necessarily the wider linux community but these voices gotta be out there
The main issue I see is that a ton of people (influencers but also users) tend to massively downplay the difficulties you might encounter when using Linux.
Every thread where someone asks whether they should try Linux is full of people claiming that it’s super easy, super seamless, much less issues than using Windows, you’ll never need to touch CLI and so on.
But mostly these are users that are already quite good with Linux (or users who just about managed to install Linux a week ago and haven’t seen anything yet). These good users have difficulty understanding how difficult easy things are to regular users.
I encountered this when making an open source physiotherapy game console for kids with cystic fibrosis.
A big issue with CF therapy is that pretty much every therapist is doing something slightly differently, so the therapy needs to be configurable. For that I made a very simple .ini file to configure the therapy. Every single person I showed that to went into instant panic mode.
I then made a simple WebUI where people can configure the same thing, but instead of a text file there are now separate text fields for each value. And suddenly everyone gets it instantly and has no difficulty at all using it, even though all that changed was going from a text file with
key=valueto a Web UI with[label for key] [text field for value].
Linux is easy if it comes pre-installed, pre-configured and with first-party hardware support both by the laptop manufacturer and each and every component in there. And first-party OS support by the device manufacturer. Like ChromeOS and Steam Deck.
If that’s not the case it will be difficult for normie users. Same as installing Windows on hardware not primarily intended to run Windows or making a Hackintosh. Both of these experiences suck just as much.
A lot of Mac knowledge can translate. I learned the basics of bash on Mac OS X. I also kept my boot partitions on different drives before I switched to Linux only(I was never Windows only or even Windows Primary).
Tbf none of the points you listed are negative to me. I mean how boring would linux be if it was just go to [random site] and paste the commands into the terminal? There would be no brain training involved, no way to get better at computers.
Most people use an OS to do things, not to do an OS.
It’s like with cars: There are some car nerds who tune their own engine control parameters and replace broken transmissions and engines themselves.
But for most people a car is used to get to work (or other places) not to play with them.
And while there’s nothing wrong with using an OS as a hobby because you love debugging things, it would be strange to expect that everyone wants to play with an OS instead of using an OS to accomplish something.
I’ve been gaming on Linux on both Deck and Desktop for a while now and I like it, but I also have to admit that it’s not without issues. Thanks to Steam and Proton, most games really do “just work”, but some, especially non-Steam games or related tools like launchers, plugin/mod managers can cause issues and may need more effort to get running, which can be difficult for people with little Linux experience. I also recognise that not everyone wants to have to deal with that and I think that’s fair. And I get the impression that many Linux gamers underestimate their own skills and how much the average non-tech person would have to learn to be able to have a similarly good experience.
Updates can also just break games. I’s happened to me with Trackmania when the stupid Ubisoft launcher suddenly wouldn’t work anymore, or Blizzard games like World of Warcraft and Starcraft 2, which started having graphical issues. Slay the Spire, after a patch, always launched on the wrong screen and refused to let me move it to the primary one.
Disclaimer: I’m on a non-gaming focused, but popular distro (Fedora).
Slay the Spire in particular has a Linux native version. You shouldn’t have any issues with that.
Yeah I don’t know what’s up with that, but I’m not the only with this issue and funnily enough running the game with Proton fixes it.
channel name JayzTwoCents
look inside
tfw opinions aren‘t even worth a penny
I’ve been dual booting for ages without any windows-caused issues. is it windows 11 specifically that messes with dual booting or did I accidentally work around it by installing Linux to a separate ssd
Different disk is fine. Same disk, Windows is a little colonialist ass and on every update will rewrite the boot partition, screwing up Linux.
Yeah, if you’ve got two EFI partitions on separate disks and one is for Windows while the other is for your Linux, you’re good. Windows likes to reinstall its bootloader which sets it as the default and sometimes overwrites the Linux bootloader, but not if it’s on a different EFI partition, then it doesn’t “know” about it.
What do you think the problem is? Grub is present so windows update cannot be the culprit on this one. Initramfs works, but the root partition is not found. Both the primary and fallback. A broken update sequence? Would be nice to get the logs
Edit: at 23:32 it says the logs have been generated at
/run/initramfs/rdsosreport.txtand that the user can save it to/bootor usb stick. Since/bootwas mounted successfully and grub was working, then the probably a broken update from bazzite.I miss the Barnacules Jayztwocents live stream days. Can’t even watch Jay anymore because of the click bait, trying to appease teenage boys as a grown ass man thing he’s trying to do.
I also dual boot, to separate physical drives, and the Ubuntu bootup process is constantly breaking. Every other restart I have to fix it so that it will boot. Having said that, gaming on windows was untenable. Every single game would crash between 1min and 30min, always with an nvlddmkm error code showing in the event viewer. Using a laptop rtx 4070. I tried absolutely everything to fix it. I even tried buying new ram sticks. Same error. I started to think something was wrong at the hardware level.
Since switching to Ubuntu, I haven’t had a single crash, playing every game on steam with maxed out graphics. It works perfectly. Also I’ve noticed that booting into windows sends cooling fans into overdrive while booting into Ubuntu is quiet as a mouse. Fuck windows, it’s basically spyware at this point and it doesn’t even work.
I can’t get doom the dark ages to run at a playable frame rate on my Ryzen 9 / etc 5080 laptop.
Literally the only issue I’ve ever had with Linux gaming.
deleted by creator
YouTuber desperate for those views concocts a story that will resonate with their viewers so they will watch his YouTube ads Then carefully crafts a video that happens to tell that preplanned story that confirms his viewers prejudices. YouTube makes gobs of money. YouTuber makes some too. This is not a Public Service Announcement. Every viewers time is wasted.
People need to stop watching this clickbaiting asshole. No shit kernel anti cheat doesn’t work in Linux, it’s been a thing forever, that’s never gonna change. Did he use mesa or amdgpu? RADV or proprietary? Wasn’t that long ago that windows had similar problems. Not surprised the windows and Nvidia shill doesn’t do basic research.
Did he use mesa or amdgpu? RADV or proprietary?
I gotta admit I don’t understand why the best option isn’t used by default? Like when I go to download drivers off AMD/Nvidias websites there’s just one option to pick for gaming, I don’t have multiple options I need to research.
To be fair windows use to be this way too. You had the driver’s from the manufacturer and then third party drivers. Was a big thing in the ati days.
And even in Linux you in the most strict of sense do only have 1 option for drivers if your using the manufacturers provided drivers.
The other option is “not supported” by the manufacturer. They work but frankly the only people who care are the paranoid people who take foss to a frankly unreasonable extreme.
For Nvidia you basically have the same experience on windows as Linux. You have to go get the driver’s from them, and the default that comes with your OS. The windows generic or the open source for Linux. Work, but it’s better to install the full driver.
For amd you just kinda default to the best on any sane distro so it’s a non issue for Linux. Or for windows you just go install from manufacturer it doesn’t come with your OS.
