I personally cringe when I hear a friend js having a kid. All I can think of is how bad theyre going to have it. Hell id definitely have been better off being born 20 years earlier, but these new kids are REALLY screwed unless they have super rich parents.
“Nothing new under the sun” I suppose!
Climate change is the only true existential reason to feel that way.
Everything else is just over focusing on a short term dip. On average things are getting better over the long term. The British Empire collapsed, and so will the American one, and the world will keep on turning and progressing.
Hell kids born these days may have legitimate cures for most forms of cancer by the time they’re old. We won’t.
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My grandma was born pre world war 2, she was literally born during the rise of fascism, then lived through her family getting conscripted and some killed, having to flee to the country side during the bombing raids, then through years of post war rationing.
She then travelled around the world during the 50s, raised a family during the 60s and 70s, and enjoyed a long, happy, fruitful, and fulling retirement / art career from the 80s, through the 90s, and 00s, and just passed away this year.
And there was zero chance she regretted being born.
It’ll be over within the next century or so
Oh, only climate change. Well that’s alright then. /s
Climate change is going to influence everything in our society for the worse: politics, economics, living standards, everything, including the amount of resources available to use for research.
and the world will keep on turning and progressing.
The world will keep on turning, but there is absolutely no factual basis for claiming it will keep on progressing. If anything that is one thing we can learn from history.
Climate change is going to influence everything in our society for the worse: politics, economics, living standards, everything, including the amount of resources available to use for research.
Cite the numbers that make you pessimistic.
If you don’t have numbers, then keep your crystal astrology bad vibes to yourself until you have something to back them.
I’m fucking sick of leftists acting like being moody and pessimistic is a valid political stan stance that does anything.
Windows 11 laptops requires a webcam. The internet now wants selfies to prove that you are a certain age.
The kids now will grow up thinking that this is normal. That is what I am worried about.
Can I get a source?
Very. I already dont see a bright future. People born today dont know anything but a broken world. Me being born 2003 atleast saw a slight bit of it
I’m sorry, but you are wildly naive. You’ve seen 22 years of this planet. You have no idea how good you and your potential offspring actually have it.
Age has nothing to do with how one is naive. Humanity will survive the climat crisis. That is sure…but at what cost…and that is what scares me
I can agree with you on all of that. In this instance my argument is that it’s always been scary. We hide behind a false sense of security. It’s always been this scary. It will always be this scary. We were born to die. Humankind is just like a human life. At one point, whether we like it or not, it will all end.
Politics, economics and war are all hard to predict for long term, but just on the count of climate change kids born today are screwed.
All the time. I fake being happy for the parents and on the inside think What the fuck is wrong with you?
Im glad im not the only one.
Has nothing to do with lemmy or reddit either. I’ve always felt that way even when. I was a kid I couldn’t imagine why people want them. Must be something in the genes because im pretty sure my parents shouldn’t have had kids either lol!
You are born in the very very very best stretch the human race has ever known.
We have solutions for almost every problem which exists today.
Wars are at an historical low point.
Chances are good you’ve never been even experienced war first hand.
Housing is expensive, yes. But chances are you’re reading this on a couch or bed in a home, heated (or cooled), with a working stove, light at night and a fridge with edibles in it. And lets not talk about your immediate almost unrestricted access to all of human knowledge.
That would be unbelievable, impossible even during 99.9% of human history. (Or somewhere near this figure)
You should stop doomscrolling and start reading the real human history.
All of human knowledge at your fingertips. And this is what you chose to distill from it.
I get what you are saying but everyone is ignoring the human condition. We feel things based on how they are around us in a relative sense.
It doesn’t matter if it is statistically better. Modern times are getting worse for people. Health, privacy, freedom are all declining in America. That is what people see and feel. I’m tired of people acting like we have life horizons that can see centuries.
Chronic health is a real current issue and it absolutely destroys quality of life too.
So yeah, great, best time to be alive. But since I was a kid many things have gotten worse. From health (cost, accessibility) and education to privacy. Maybe we will be much farther ahead in 20 years, but the next 10 are looking grim.
Your information is outdated by 5-10 years unfortunately.
Wars are at an historical low point.
Global conflict levels highest since end of Second World War.
We have solutions for almost every problem which exists today.
A very bold claim. We have lots of solutions, but not the will or resources to implement them. Climate change being the primary problem of which we have no real solution.
reading real history is work though. just like working out and eating well.
doomscrolling is like the equivalent of sitting you your ass and eating junk food/delivery and satiating that lizard brain to the exclusion of their higher functions and potentials.
majority of people are going to choose the latter as much as they can.
Word. Just because America is on a downward slide everyone acting like these are the worst times ever. LOL. The people need some history classes.
When I was a kid, cancer was basically a death sentence. AIDS certainly was! Some of the tech I’ve experienced blows my mind. Wondering if my wife and I had finally caught COVID (we did 🤬), so I busted out the free laboratory kit I got in the mail. That was work for a hospital lab, and you were going to wait a few days. Sliced the side of my finger off, and they grew it back. I could go on forever.
In the movie Armageddon (1998), talking about the age of the space station being 10-years old, “Most of us don’t drive cars that old.” A 10-yo car was trash, common knowledge. My truck is a 2004 and my wife’s car is a 2014. Both run great. And I could go on for ages as to how much safer vehicles are. None of the things we take for granted like ABS, air bags, crumple zones, none of that existed when I was a kid. Hell, some cars didn’t have safety glass!
People will next tell me that global warming is a new threat that will kill us all. Friends and neighbors, we already survived an ice age.
No. Only joy for the new parents and child. (Though I do put in work to shore up their finances, try to get them my next bonus.)
Several reasons: being a kid today is better than being a kid 20-50 years ago. Toys are cooler, parenting competence and training has broadly improved, minecraft exists, and there is some really good childrens TV.
Health risks are largely down, especially compared to 35 years ago. (Anecdotally about 10% of families around my cohort lost kids. Far fewer in the younger cohorts.)
While economic mobility is down, more people means a stronger voting block. Boomers run the world because their protests changed policy. I see indications that kids are a more competent politic than earlier generations (eg, climate and LGBTQ rights), we just need them to matter sooner.
For what it’s worth, the economy is not just bad, it’s breaking. If workers remain this exploited, there will soon be nobody to sell to. We are seeing large (usually stupid) interventions to try and address it, I put nontrivial odds on something sane eventually being tried.
War deaths are low and really don’t seem likely to increase dramatically (see here).
Edit: I forgot to add LGBTQ rights/acceptance! While there are definitely still places that are not safe, many of them were not safe before (and that was just the status quo), I believe the risks have decreased and will continue to do so, while the medical access has improved (and that hopefully will continue, though I’m personally expecting that to get worse before it gets better. I think kids today probably get good care in 10 years, some kids 6-12 are in for a bad time.)
All ye who enter abandon all hope
Seriously, you people are a bunch of cake eaters. “The future is scary and things are getting worse.” It’s always been scary, you’ve just been privileged enough for it not to be.
All I can think of is how bad theyre going to have it.
Bro, people have it bad NOW. Life is and has always been suffering and struggle. Get out of your online bubble and go see some shit. Anyone here who says their life outlook looks bleak would have said the exact same shit 30 years ago or even 100 years ago.
Life is suffering no matter when.
Seriously. I regularly meet people who make top 5% incomes, like 250K+. They living in luxury condos, have had their entire life paved out for them by welathy parents, and will never have any real problems or struggles in their lives.
What do they talk about every time? How poor they are. How everything is so hard. How they struggle so much with daily tasks. How their job is so awful. Why can’t they just go be on a yacht somewhere forever? How their friend/boss/parent is mean and not giving them more stuff, etc. etc. Why isn’t their life perfect and wonderful life they were promised? Why aren’t they famous and rich like some other person they met once? Oh, and how the govt is evil because it taxes them too much and it’s not fair that their multi-million dollar inheritance might be taxed too so they might only inherent $20 million, not $28 million, the horror and unfairness of it all!
And the millionaires/billionaires… all feel this same way too. Hence why they are all building apocalypse estates in New Zealand and bunkers in old missile silos and whining about how the mean government taxing them is so unfair.
Just read all of Vonnegut’s works again. It’s weird hearing him outline, from the 1940s onward, the same exact issues we have today. There are easily 300 passages I could quote here and claim as my own commentary on modern life. No one would blink.
“The good Earth - we could have saved it, but we were too damn cheap and lazy.”
“America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, ‘It ain’t no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be.’ It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor.”
Suffering is not new. It’s universal. To exist is to suffer. Even if we were to find an infinite source of energy and food, we would find a way to suffer.
Thirty-ish years ago, my grandfather said he felt sorry for me because of the state of the world.
Human nature is to say things are going to shit, everything is terrible, and things were better in some non-existent past.
Yeah, things suck now. But they also sucked thirty years ago and 100 years ago. The difference is that we know the outcome to (some) of the problems people faced then. And (generally) the worst case scenario didn’t happen.
Yeah, we need to fight the rich on climate change. But we will. And we’ll mitigate the problems we can. And we’ll tell our grandkids that we don’t envy their future.
30 years ago, if your microwave went out, half the time it might have just been the fuse, which you could buy a pack of really cheap at the local Radio Shack.
Today, what the fuck is a fuse? They want you to chuck that old microwave and buy a new one that connects to the internet…
a new microwave is like $20-50 dude. And no, it has no internet.
I’ve never bought one, I always repair them. Spare parts are pretty easy to find near dumpsters, given how often people just throw them away…
Cool I’d rather go to the store and buy one than dumpster dive and spend hours of my time repairing something I can buy in 15m for $50. Hours of my time is far more valuable than the $50 I’d save dumpster diving. Must be nice to have a lot of free time to go dumpster diving to save a few bucks. I might have done that when I was broke in my 20s.
Meh, the dumpsters are within walking distance, and I’d say on average someone out at our apartments throws out a microwave around twice a month or so. As long as the keypad works, the typical issues I tend to find are either a blown fuse or shorted high voltage diode, both way cheaper than even the gas it takes to drive 8 miles to the nearest Walmart. And I usually have suitable parts in my parts bin anyways.
And between two microwaves, there’s almost always enough good parts between the two to make one work. It takes me less time to fix most microwaves than it does to even drive to Walmart. 🤷
Yes, climate change, microplatics in brains and balls and mountain fresh water and pollution all around.
Oh and forget about ever owning your house except you inherit.
And all of it is man-made.
There’s enough land in the world for every single adult human to have 2 acres. Pretty crazy. Then we have people living in actual closets that cost 2k a month. Crazy.
I choose not to. I can choose to be hopeful for the future without being unrealistic. I can see intrinsic value in human life and the human experience even knowing that every single one of us will die at some point, some peacefully, some during suffering. The moment of death doesn’t have to define one’s life. Even a baby who lives for six hours has spent infinitely more time living than dying. Would you be so nihilistic as to erase that life, just because it was short?
Your philosophy is valid; it’s not necessarily correct.
Starting from the assumption that it is denies you the opportunity to see things from a different perspective.If we dont pass the torch only the rich will. Is that a world we want to fortify? I’d rather not. Someone has to oppose them. Thats our and our children’s fight as the world begins to wane.
That’s our fight—not our unborn childrens’.
Having a child for any purpose other than the flourishing and well-being of that child has always struck me as a deeply flawed decision. If your child doesn’t want to fight for a world they never knew, all you’ve birthed is misery.
Mate, we have to create the environment to flourish. I never said it was fair. I never said it was right. But look at the world around you. Someone has to pick up the banner, and we won’t be here forever. You still have to kindle hope.
Also, some people fuck and kids get made, and thats just life.
Amen.
If we try and leave the world better than we found it then we can make space for kids to flourish. Thats our obligation to them.
But we have to actually try, even when it’s hard or inconvenient or unfair.
If only the rich procreate then the kids of the rich must work farms.
There will be no rich people if the poor people don’t procreate.
Thats why Elon has an army of surrogates right?
I feel like most people today have kids just because they feel that’s what they should be doing or because they just want a kid. I feel having kids is almost, incredibly selfish? If that makes sense.
What an odd take. Reproducing is arguably the #1 motivation, and purpose, of all life on this planet. Biologically anyway. You’re taking issue with a fundamental trait of life that’s baked into our DNA.
May as well deem people selfish for wanting food and shelter too.
Yeah, I don’t get how people can think like this but not want nukes to take out everything. Like you’re living this shit, too, if you are willing to keep living this shit, why do you assume it’s a bad thing for anyone to bring someone else into it? Anti-natalism is pro-extinction from my pov.
Not that I have an issue with people taking themselves out of the gene pool or anything, I just find the position wildly inconsistent with anyone who wants to continue living themselves.
And to be clear, I mean specifically the “if you choose to have a kid, you are bad” position, I can understand “having kids is not for me, I don’t want to do parenting”.
Hey there, I’ll try to clear things up a bit. At this point in time, here’s a list of things going on in the world:
1.) Collapse of world democracies- the US is fascist now with several countries on their way. It’s a reasonable assumption that a child born today will experience less freedom than you ever have.
2.) Collapse of the environment. - The planet is becoming uninhabitable. 60% of insect species are gone. Temperatures are rising. There’s more than a few inferences that can be made from this…
3.) Collapse of the middle class - it kinda ties into #1, and a lot of people have seen this coming for a while too. We’re being split into an ownership class and a working class. If that divide continues growing (like graphs would indicate) we’re heading towards a neo-feudalist state. That’s not a pleasant experience for anyone other than those at the top. I’m not at the top, you probably aren’t either.
4.) Idiocracy Effect - the beginning part of idiocracy, where it’s explained that dumb people are popping out 10 kids while intelligent people are spending years planning their first. If you are one of the smart people, you’d be forcing a new version of yourself to live in a world with exponentially more dumb people than the world you live in today. If you’re one of the dumb people, well….
The last one doesn’t get a #, but I also have questions surrounding consent for existence. I won’t get into that because I don’t have a fully formulated opinion on that specific area yet. I’m still working it out for myself.
I think the next generation is going to start feeling it hard. Current generation will slip by but barely. I’m not pressuring my kids to have their own. Just do you fam.
Born 1949 would be awesome. After world war, then Woodstock, cheap housing, fucked up the world with their plastics, dead before its getting hot. These mfs had the best timespan ever.
If youre white, definitely. I’d probably choose to be born in early 70s so I could have gotten into computing when it first become available outside of labs.
But yeah capitalism only works for the already-haves. If youre late to the party fuck you. Why didn’t you buy a house when you were 12, idiot ?
