So for context, I went to first grade in mainland China before immigrating to the United States, in China, they teach kids this weird trick that’s basically like reciting a “poem” thing, which I didn’t remember what it was called until I recently googled it. Its apparantly called the “九九乘法口诀表” or 9x9 Song / “The Nine-nine song” (Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_multiplication_table#The_Nine-nine_song_text_in_Chinese).
So like… in 2nd grade, for which I was in the US, multiplication was very easy for me, well… at least up to 10x10. Like idk how to explain it to someone who’s doesn’t speak a variant of Chinese, and even the rhythm only works for me in Mandarin somehow, when I try to use Cantonese, which is the language I speak at home in the US, I cannot replicate the rhythm to make thay thing work, this “Poem”/“Song” is only available to me in Mandarin, like when I think about multiplying together any 2 single digit number, I instictively use the “九九乘法口诀表”.
Like its goes from 1x1 then next lines are 1x2, 2x2, then next are 1x3, 2x3, 3x3, then its 1x4, 2x4, 3x4, 4x4, etc… you get the idea, mutiples of 1, then 2, then 3. So if I need to multiply something by 7, I can start from the line where multiples of 7 are. Sometimes I can remember the exact phrase of it like for example 3x7, without starting from 1x7, then 2x7, then 3x7.
Like I never thought too hard about it, it kinda just became the “normal” way I do multiplication. But someone asked a question on Lemmy about reading analog clocks and I probably didn’t answer their question correctly but that was when I kinda was like: oh wow I forgot that my way of multiplication is probably different from everyone else in the west.
Like if you told me to teach a English-Only speaker on how to do multiplication tables, I… um… I don’t know how I would teach that, the “九九乘法口诀表” doesn’t have the rhythm in English so I doubt converting the it to English would work.
Like even though I speak English as my primary language now, and I barely have any fluency in Mandarin or even Cantonese which I speak at home (and never learned any vocabulary beyond the basics), the “九九乘法口诀表” multiplication thing is always done in mandarin somehow, like its always been stuck in my brain even after all these years in the US.
TLDR answer to my own question. I do it using “九九乘法口诀表” which takes me 1-2 seconds to recall a specific line, so basically, anything up to 10x10 takes about 2 seconds for my brsin to process, 11x11x to 12x12 takes about 5-10 seconds, anything bigger and I just giveup using my brain and pull out a calculator. I memorized 10x10 since first grade, then 12x12 probably by like 2nd grade or maybe first half of 3rd grade.
How do y’all do it, is it easy or hard?
Edit: Okay so the best way for me to explain “九九乘法口诀表” is that: Think of PEMDAS (order of operations), but its for the entire multiplication up to 9x9.
I want to say we were supposed to learn them in second grade in Canada, but I personally never did. My memory isn’t good enough, so to this day, I just work it out in my head. For small numbers like 1-12, its easy enough to break it down to smaller parts and solve quickly anyway.
Same here. Nobody ever noticed, so why even bother with memorizing if I can calculate it fast enough.
Because it functions as a base for doing slightly more complicated math in your head.
If you don’t have 7x7 memorized, it’s a lot harder to do 77x70.
But we have calculators… everywhere
Which is totally fine if you do calculations like that every once in a while. If your job or hobby requires frequent multiplication by not-nice numbers, it can be extremely convenient to be able to do this kind of math mentally. Even if it’s just a couple seconds, it can be really annoying having to “switch gears” to grabbing a calculator
It’s also really nice to just be able to do grocery store math without pulling out your phone. Are the 12 packs or the 24 case cheaper?
And that’s probably one of the few remaining uses of mental arithmetic I have nowadays. I also got to practice rounding up numbers for estimating whether or not I’ve got enough money for groceries. It’s easier to keep up with a running total in my head if they’re nice (rounded-up) numbers instead of being surprised at the total cost at the end.
It’s honestly not that hard to memorize your times tables. You do it once in third grade and it stays with you for life.
I use it daily, personally. Comes up a ton in gaming. How many of these can I afford? Etc.
Chess is a good one. No calculator allowed. You have six minutes to make 9 moves, how many seconds per move? And don’t take too long because the calculation eats into your time.
I would have no fucking chance in American places that add tax at the till instead of on the sticker.
Im good at keeping a running total in my head and even figuring out if the 2-for-1 on premium brands works out cheaper than 1 super-budget and shit like that.
If im trying to add 17.5% on top of everything I think id just die.
But we have calculators… everywhere
A vast majority of which give wrong answers to order of operations expressions because of programmers who didn’t bother checking they had their Maths right when writing a calculator.
so why even bother with memorizing if I can calculate it fast enough
The standard is to be able to answer a times table question in 2 seconds, so if it’s taking longer than 2 seconds to calculate it then it’s not fast enough.
I’m doing okay then. Thanks for providing a baseline.
I also just work it out in my head. There are certain “landmark” numbers and tricks that I use to save time. For example, 9 times any number is easy: multiply by 10 and subtract once. x11 is similar. Same with anything close to a perfect square. (7 x 8 = 7 x 7 + 7)
I think that memorization was important to achieve speed before phones/calculators. Nowadays, I would consider memorization an obstacle to understanding.
Memorization of key facts is required for the development of higher reasoning. For example you can not understand global trade if you have not memorized basic geography.
Key facts, sure. If you don’t know geography, no amount of reflection can provide you with the location of Hong Kong.
However, i can figure out anything on the 12x12 timestable in a few seconds, no memorization needed. I don’t even need the landmark numbers that i mentioned because multiplication is just repeated addition. The only things i had to memorize were the numerals and the operators.
i can figure out anything on the 12x12 timestable in a few seconds
Within 2 seconds is the standard expected. Longer than that is lagging behind your peers
Meh. That is why the narrow application of standards is another obstacle to learning. I was top of my math classes all through high school and university, despite my ‘slow’ multiplication that required no memorization.
That is why the narrow application of standards is another obstacle to learning
No it isn’t
I was top of my math classes…
Survivorship bias
I had the typical American experience of sitting with my dad every day for a couple weeks crying while he repeats "WHAT’S SEVEN TIMES THREE
9+10
I memorized them. ‘I didn’t feel like it’ was not an option. We did times tables every morning, everyone knew them after a while.
Much easier when I learned you just take the previous number and add + whatever to it.
5 X 8 = 40
5 X 9 = 45 (40+5)
5 X 10 = 50 (45+5)
5 X 11 = 55 (50+5)
5 X 12 = 60 (55+5)The moderator has become the moderated. I’d love to see what was said here.
LOL - the automod went off the rails for a few minutes, should be back to normal now. Stuff is being restored.
I thought it was supposed to be rote memorization though. When you were asked “what’s 5x12?” Did you go through 12 iterations to arrive at the answer?
I didn’t use this method as a kid, but I do use it or something like it pretty often to solve the math formula that my phone requires to turn its alarm off because that can go up to 15 and I don’t have above 10s 100% well memorized. I can get 10, 5, 1, and 2 of anything pretty quickly, so 11 is 10+1, 12 is 10+2, 13 is 10+5-2, etc. I don’t think it would have met the speed requirements of my times tables tests back in elementary school, especially because I was probably slower on my 2s, 5s, and addition back then, but 2-3 iterations is generally few enough that I can close the alarm before it gets too loud/annoying, even in a half-asleep state
Don’t need to. 5x11 is easy, 55. So *12 is 60. :)
I also use the repeated addition/subtraction method, and found that once memorizing just 3 key points, I was faster and more consistent than those that tried to memorize the tables. 65, 95 and 12*12 is all you need
This is how my brain processes stuff. I’m absolutely stupid with basic math. I count on my fingers to this day. But practically speaking I can take benchmarks and then add a number.
For instance, I know that 6x6=36. Instantly I know that in my head. But 6x7…I will pause. I think I know what answer sounds right, but I don’t “know” it instantly. So I take my 36 and add 6, and confirm in my brain its 42.
Its dumb, but it works. Everybody thinks I’m good at math because I understand math concepts. I’ve studied as far as calculus. I’ve analyzed number data in business. I can do all that but still need help with my basic arithmetics. It’s worked for me so far.
My dad played a kind of patty-cake growing up where I practiced doing times tables in rhythm. My dad would pick the addend and set the pace, and we’d alternate left and right hand high fives while saying say multiples of four. 4 8 12 … 36 40, then we’d just switch to 7’s, slightly slower pacing 7 14 20~ … if i made mistakes - 21, let’s try again: 7 14 21 2…8 35 … no reprimand for error - we had a beat to keep, just take a downbeat and try again. Of course simpler numbers were taken further 3s were occasionally done out to 300, and 2s were done as fast as I could spit out the words. 5s were often the rest set, done at a basic pace.
The madlad had me polishing my 13×13s before school ever even mentioned the existence of multiplication.
I think we had up to do up to 12 times tables by 3rd or 4th grade. I remember starting in 1st at school but really I learned them from Schoolhouse Rock. In the states Schoolhouse Rock was on Saturday Mornings between regular cartoons and they had such great songs.
One of the very few teachers I remember (I’m 68) was Fred Ross due to how effectively he taught me the times tables and more. That guy for months on end drilled the times tables into our heads by repetition. There were no calculators or internet then so it was the most effective way and it worked too.
He also posed a question that to this day I have not found the answer. An English only word with the letter q in it but no u after the q. Can only be a regular word not a name or a city.
we just went to 10x10, and I think we did that in like 2nd grade. so like 8yo. we just had to straight up memorize it, no helpful song or anything. We did it in sections though, so one day we were supposed to memorize 1x1 to 1x10, another day 2x1 to 2x10 etc.
I can remember 11x11 because it is annoyingly 121 not 111, and 12x12 is 144 which I find kinda easy to remember because of gaming monitors using 144hz (I don’t get why my brain makes those kinda associations, it just works for me idk). 11x12 is weird because it is the first multiplication where my brain starts picking it apart like 11x12 = (10x12) + (1x12) = 120 + 12 = 132
I also remember 144 being particularly pleasing. Also because it was the biggest number on the table.
I just memorized it to be the fastest and get candy, I was a fat kid, and memorizing the single digits is necessary to do math in your head? I never understood how to use my hands and i cant hold a visual that well, like 3 apples become 5 become 1 become a truck in the span of a second
7 was weirdly easy for me, 9 has tricks to at least 10 that can help, but the easiest was probably 2, 5, 10. How? Idk. Brute force probably.
5 alternates between ending in 5s and 0s.
Also Lots of School House Rock.
School House Rock did all the things in its name.
Grew up in BC, Canada. We were memorizing the table all the way up to 12x12 by grade three. I don’t remember there being a specific limit taught before that…only that we got introduced to multiplication in grade 1, and did more in grade 2. But, grade 3 was when we needed to know the whole thing.
I was only taught up to 10×10 in primary school, and learned mostly by rote (and also, “skip counting”). I’ve also heard of some techniques like matching fingers to do one-digit multiplication, but I never really learned how to do that. By that point, I’ve mostly memorized the multiplication table up to 10.
For 11, it’s absurdly easy once I got the technique, just double the number (up until 9). 11×10 is just appending a zero, and 11×11 I just memorized.
For 12, I actually didn’t bother that much? 12×N = 10×N + 2×N. Thus, 12×11 = 110 + 24 = 134 and 12×12 = 120 + 24 = 144 (which I got memorized for some reason).
I still have some trouble with the 6, 7, and sometimes 8 multiplication tables, but I can usually recall it with a bit of effort. Not much, but not without some awkward pause.
Now, for how I got to memorize it. The process was hard at first. I had to recite the multiplication tables as a drill almost everyday. We also had long quizzes (hundred items) of one-digit multiplication and two-digit division (by the fourth grade), so there’s an incentive to memorize the tables if only to be able to get through those quizzes with minimal pain. There’s also a social stigma for being the last person to get done with those quizzes (or worse, running out of time), so there’s that pressure too.
Parents got me this plastic grid with buttons containing the problem and when you pushed them, the translucent plastic would show the answer. I memorized them pretty quickly. Not sure if it was the right way to learn but it stuck with me.
I don’t remember if it was 2nd or 3rd grade, but I just memorized them. My grandmother bought flash cards and drilled them with me every day until I had memorized them all.
Learned them about age 6, up to 12x12. Still know them, and takes a lot less than 1-2 seconds to call them to mind.
Except 7x6 and 8x6 which, for some reason, I’ve never been able to learn so I always end up going from 6x6 = 36.
it’s 7x8 that always gave me a slight delay
