- cross-posted to:
- plex@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- plex@lemmy.ml
We are also changing how remote playback works for streaming personal media (that is, playback when not on the same local network as the server). The reality is that we need more resources to continue putting forth the best personal media experience, and as a result, we will no longer offer remote playback as a free feature. This—alongside the new Plex Pass pricing—will help provide those resources. This change will apply to the future release of our new Plex experience for mobile and other platforms.
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Before now I was on the sunk cost fallacy of not wanting to teach my extended family how to use Jellyfin instead of plex but after this I’m already mid-way through setting up a Jellyfin docker container on my server and I only found out an hour ago
I’ve been testing out jellyfin for the last couple months but it doesn’t really fill the void of this specific feature that’s being locked behind a pay wall. If anyone has good recommendations for securely and reliably hosting jellyfin behind SSL and auth with email password resets where I don’t have to worry about it as much as Plex.
I use jellyfin locally but for a handful of remote clients I have I may well block off their access they’re not going to be able to figure out my hand spun services and wall of text.
Alas my TV (LG WebOS 2) doesn’t have an application for Jellyfin, or I’d have switched years ago :-(
Is there an emby app available or Kodi? The base of Jellyfin should work in either. Plug and play as far as I’m aware with maybe some issues for certain versions.
Jellyfin is still way behind Plex in general performance but I keep a VM of it running and updated, for when the day comes that Plex is absolutely worthless.
Which at this rate, is, well, we’re getting there.
Jellyfin depends on proprietary Microsoft .NET, even on Linux.
It’s still better than Plex and Emby, which are fully proprietary, and have no source code. But I will stick with sshfs with kodi, and nginx plus mpv for now.
I’m not pirating a bunch of shows just to pay Plex for the privilege of watching it.
Also remember to give them your credit card, name and address for the privilege of pirating the content.
Even better, it’s now a nice database of who companies and governments can go after when they want or need to!
It always has been… just now they want you to pay.
Jellyfin ftw
I have a lifetime plex pass so this does not really affect me but I expect the trend of degrading experience to continue. I would have switched to Jellyfin a long time ago but I am dreading contacting everyone I share with and getting them migrated.
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You can use Cloudflare Tunnel as well.
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Everything I see online says it’s free.
I’ve also used it recently and did not pay for it.
It’s against CloudFlare ToS to use CF tunnels for media streaming like this. You can risk it ig but I have important stuff like domain registrations on CloudFlare so I’m personally not willing to risk getting banned.
I have not used it for streaming, but you’re right. I purposely do not proxy my media traffic for this reason, utilizing their other solutions.
Hellooooo jellyfin!
Only use open source software
They do not have chromecast support. (Atleat the last time i checked) Thats a deal breaker for me, would love to use it.
I run Jellyfin on Chromecast with Google TV every day, it works super well.
Unless you mean casting from your phone, then I don’t know.
I will check it out!
… I’m using Chromecast and Google TV, though Chromecast isn’t very good, really, and Google TV stared showing commercials every now and then since a while ago, so that too will be on its way out.
But yeah, they’re supported
IIRC it has it. Not if you’re behind VPN or a tunnel. Only over HTTPS.
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Yes, it does introduce insecurity, so not for everyone. I have it behind a domain on cloudflare (let’s encrypt cert) with nginx reverse proxy
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Yes, it took me a long time to figure it out. Which is why Plex feels comfortable charging for it
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Hmm i need to revisit it again. Thanks!
I just confirmed it has it. You need to be on the same subnet, which is why VPN won’t work. But then everything shows up as castable
Glad I bought the Plex Pass like 13 years ago. While I understand everyone seems to think everything should be free, I’m sure your boss wishes you worked for free too, but the world doesn’t work that way.
I’m OK supporting products I use , and Plex is an example of this for me. It was a well spend $75 in 2013
Nah. Cool that you think that, though. The moment they started charging for what was a free service, they lost me. I have gigabit internet. The only reason i used their service to begin with was ease of use.
Hot take but maybe everything doesn’t need to be an infinitely expanding business. Just imagine for a second that it’s fine for something to just break even, pay for the few mainteners salaries and not expand the business at all ever. I know that I just uttered the cardinal evil under capitalism but fucking seriously. The primary userbase of plex is pirates. The whole incentive is not having to pay for a streaming service. Charging money for it is just torpedoing your entire userbase. The entire appeal of Plex was it not charging money.
Yah and I still bought a plexpass and then left Plex. Do I care no I got my money worth. Software costs money how would they continue to developed it if not getting paid?
Software costs money how would they continue to developed it if not getting paid?
Apparently a hot take as evidenced the downvotes on my other comments here, but by adding things people want instead of taking away things people already have and charging more for it.
They don’t even have the excuse that they need to pay for the bandwidth costs of relaying video from servers to clients. Video is streamed directly from the user’s self-hosted server, using UPnP or NAT-PMP to make the server accessible from outside the local network.
They don’t even have the excuse
just for ref, I’m not downvoting you. They do offer some things that cost them dev/money/time. And some of those things are pain points on Jellyfin.
They give you SSL and dynamic DNS style stuff behind the scenes. They give you a remote service that tells you if you’re remotely visible. They cache the tvdb and manage some subscriptions for EPG and do a pretty good job partnering with (and presumably caching) open subtitles.
None of that makes up for their rug-pulling bullshit.
You used to be able to download shit to your phone then become a local server so other people on your local network could watch off your device.
You used to be able to run 3rd party plugins improving libraries and storing off youtube meta
They’re scrapping watch together
They’re scrapping free remote
They’re spiraling the drain… But I won’t miss them, I’ll miss what they once were.
So, you’ve got option. You can just roll your own, or go to jellyfin.
I’m one of the first people to complain about the incessant need to grow 20% a year to appease shareholders and how unsustainable that is. But I also realize as I said, stuff cost money and “just breaking even” will also grow in cost every year with everything else, so… Even in that perfect world you were describing, there would be an increase in cost applied to that project.
Much like I am sure you expect at the very least a cost of living raise each year. I’m also guessing you’re glad your paycheck to bills ratio isn’t what it was 20y ago. (or I can say, that for me that is true). I’m pretty happy my discretionary money is more now than it was then. I bet those developers also want that same thing.
I don’t know when or how, but it seems in my lifetime we went from that. Having corporations that just did something well and left it at that to this idiotic grow or die mentality that seems to be fueled by investor ROI.
I fucking hope to god they don’t go full enshittification and decide to revoke the lifetime licenses.
Nah they’ll just release Plex2
Even with Plex pass they were really pushing their paid content. Much happier with Jellyfin, and it was very easy to switch.
What paid content? I have a Plex lifetime pass and I can’t recall ever being asked to pay for anything? I can remember them dumping free TV channels in there at some point, but I simply switched that off and it’s not come back.
Hmm, it’s been a while, maybe I’m misremembering. There were definitely some categories of Plex content not from my library that kept reappearing on the home page of my server, despite trying to get rid of them a few times. Maybe they weren’t actually paid, I just assumed they’d only be pushing something if it was going to bring them more revenue.
The other thing that made me want to jump ship extremely fast was when they started sharing your recently watched items with other users, without asking.
I keep expecting something, the lifetime pass has more/less paid for itself.
That being said, they do still offer the lifetime pass, so clearly they see it as worth it.
Hot take here but not wrong
No, it’s still wrong.
We have ways to do NAT traversal and hole punching on consumer routers. Failing that, UPnP and port forwarding exist. Or, god forbid, IPv6.
In the rare case that literally none of those are an option, they would have to use TURN to relay between an intermediary. That is a reasonable case to ask the user to pay for their bandwidth usage, but they don’t have to be greedy fuckers by making everyone pay for it.
This is enshittification and corporate greed. Nothing more, nothing less.
They make a product. It’s not just the cost of infrastructure.
They have developers and other employees
And this isn’t a new feature they’re adding. Remote streaming was already implemented and generally available to users.
I don’t discount there being a cost in maintaining code over time, but it’s not as though they have to spend any significant employee time on improving it. They already support UPnP and NAT-PMP to have the clients connect directly to the self-hosted servers.
It would be nice if they added NAT hole punching on top of that, but it’s evidently good enough to work as-is in its current form. If they’re not even running relays to support more tricky networks (which the linked support article has no mention of), keeping this feature free costs them literally nothing extra.
Your view unfortunately doesn’t show you how shitty the unpaid experience has become. XBMC used to be a good product. Since becoming Plex, now we have:
- no local hardware accel
- no HDR
- panels that look like local videos that trick you into switching to a paid app
- rearranged home screen after some updates
- no downloads on remote devices
- and now I’ll lose the ability to share streaming with my kid, who lives many cities away
If this were clear from the outset , no one would be upset. But pulling back features Plex at one time promised “forever” (remote streaming), is complete rug-pull bullshit.
You can enjoy that warm and fuzzy reverse-fomo feeling now, but you should know that they’ll start limiting your paid experience eventually.
Xbmc didn’t become plex. It’s still alive and kicking but rebranded to Kodi (mostly because it had little to do with xbox anymore) ages ago.
Yes, you’re right, I forgot about the forking.
what? all of these work on plex for me:
-server hardware accel transcoding (are you talking about something else?)
-HDR playback works fine for me…
-I can download just fine from a browser or the plex app, when remote
Yeah, this doesn’t seem like that big of a deal for most people here. They kept the price down as long as possible. I spent $119 just before the 'rona hit and I think it’s been well worth it.
What did you pay for exactly?
What are you asking? I bought a lifetime subscription to Plex pass.
OK, but why is it a for profit company in the first place?
And why does open source Software like xz, ffmpeg, etc still work without being for profit?
Fucking liberal.
They don’t. Most people get paid by companies to work on that stuff. For example red hat pays for a lot of OS development.
If you don’t like the price there’s always jellyfin.
Got to say that I have been very happy with it.
Yeah I switched 2-3 years ago because so many features were paywalled and on jellyfin I can at least use plugins
I switched when I had an internet outage and couldn’t log into Plex locally to watch my own media. Very happy with Jellyfin since then.
Does Jellyfin do remote streaming?
Yes. You’ll have to set up a reverse proxy, I use nginx, and get yourself domain, I use duck DNS, and get a SSL certificate from let’s encrypt if your wanting to steam to something like a Chromecast or Roku.
It’s not all that hard honestly and there’s a good guide here for general home media, including both Plex and jellyfin
Assuming you know them well enough, can’t you just give your IP address to folks and forward the port on your router?
Or just use tailscale. Much easier.
Yes
Here’s the thing though, for the average plex user (myself included) you’ve already used too many acronyms and words I don’t understand. Plex serves a purpose for a lot of people, people who are even willing to pay for it to be easy.
Kind of reminds me of Netflix before anyone else did streaming. They had so much stuff I stopped sailing.
Yep. Imo now with Plex you are paying for a much simpler and accessible setup. Seems fair enough to me. Lemmy FOSS or die users (every else in this thread seemingly) are not the target audience of Plex but they sure love to complain about it.
I try to use Foss but only when it’s a lateral move. I tried Linux mint. It came close but there were so many little things that just didn’t make sense to me as someone who used windows for the last 25 years. Do I want to use Windows 11? No, especially with everything they’ve been doing to it. But in terms of usability, the sacrifices that I make by using Windows 11 outweigh the extra work, frustration, and time spent trying to figure out Linux (tried 3 different distros too).
I have 3 little kids, a full time job and aging parents. I don’t have hours every day to try and make stuff work.
Well that sucks.
Yeah, welcome to the easy, fast, cheap conundrum.
If you’re willing to do a bit of learning and asking the community for help if you get a little stuck, you’ve got a free solution, if not, which is perfectly okay mind you, then Plex is your solution and you have to decide how much you’re willing to pay.
And honestly, of you’re going down the home media route with friend and family, you’re going to want to set up sonarr, radarr, ombi, transmission with VPN anyways.
I’m going to be going the free solution route, been trying to find a cheap laptop to turn into my server right now. Do you mind if I reach out about it or do you know of any good instances?
Yeah, I have a docker compose yaml script you can baseline of off and help walk you through with my lessons learned.
Just put it behind tailscale and use the IP. Doing this for a two years now with weekly anime watch togethers with my friends. Not elegant but enough.
With the caviat that you have tailscale enabled on both devices. This prevents it from being used on a roku outside your home but you could access it remotely from your computer/phone/tablet.
It is significantly harder than Plex, currently. There are improvements happening all the time though.
You very much can create an external port and access anywhere without any of this. No tailscale needed but I’d recommend one knows what they are doing…
Hmmm, i use a Synology NAS with Jellyfin installed and my family can use their Roku TVs without issue. I didn’t realize Synology made a difference there
It totally depends on how you expose it to the outside world. If it’s exposed just like it is, it works fine with every device. If you put an authentication before it (e.g. Authelia), it can only be accessed by browsers from outside the network. That being said, it’s not recommended to expose Jellyfin directly, because there are a ton of security flaws. Best practice is to use a VPN
Well I’m a Luddite so I’m probably exposing myself to miners or something
Better than exposing yourself to minors
I do this too but it only works on my home network not remotely.
Huh? I’m streaming from my Jellyfin just fine when I’m on the go, with no tailscale or other VPN set up
It was significantly harder to set up remote access for Jellyfin than Plex 6 months ago. I ha ent attempted since. With Plex there was literally no set up, it just works. Until it just works without having to do any extra work, Jellyfin will struggle with adoption.
I have both running, and thatd a big difference to me. Also I prefer the way Plex detects intros and credits for skipping and their detection for captions. Once that’s all sorted Jellyfin wins in every field.
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It works, but isn’t nearly as user friendly.
does jellyfin have a roku app?
Yes, it streams pretty well, it has some UX issues, but it will let you get off plex as it stands right now with most of your needs covered.
Yes. I use mine daily and it works great
As a plex pass lifetime user, this doesn’t change anything for me.
I am, however, blown away that the price went from $75 CDN to $350 CDN over the last 10 years!! That’s just insane!
I’m not sure where you’re getting that from, the article literally states the price hasn’t changed in 10 years, and still hasn’t, but it finally will on the 29th of April.
This tracks with my experience as it’s probably been 10 years since I bought the lifetime pass and here in the UK it’s often on sale for basically the same price (about £75 if I recall).
Well, it was $75 CDN when i bought in 2012, it’s $150-170 CDN now, and going up to $249 USD which converts to $358 CDN, so I’m assumong they’ll round down to $350 or up to $360 CDN.
The conversion from USD to CDN kills it for us sadly. It’s just such a huge jump this time. More than double on this bump.
Canada can just become the 51st state and solve that /s
Cheaper plex subscription at the cost of healthcare and taking orders from a moron. Can’t say no to a great deal!
The bestestest deal even!
They have sales, and it’s not really worth paying the “MSRP” price. My wife got Plex Pass for $80 back in 2023, and I got it late last year for $90.
Can’t say I have a huge issue with this - Plex isn’t FOSS and the infrastructure to make this happen isn’t free. Other options are available if you don’t want to pay the fee.
But what infrastructure does this feature require? I’m direct connecting to my own personal server with perhaps credential handling and a handshake handled by Plex servers to connect. None of the media is passing through their servers - or it shouldn’t be if it is.
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In a nutshell, if your app isn’t able to make a direct connection to your Plex Media Server when you’re away from home, we can act as sort of a middle man and “relay” the stream from your server to your app. To accomplish this, your Plex Media Server establishes a secure connection to one of our Relay servers. Your app then also connects securely to the same Relay server and accesses the stream from your Plex Media Server. (In technical terms, the content is tunneled through.)
So, your Plex Media Server basically “relays” the media stream through our server so that your app can access it since the app can’t connect with your server directly.
Source: https://support.plex.tv/articles/216766168-accessing-a-server-through-relay/
It’s not a requirement to stream and it’s sort of dumb they are lumping this relay service as a part of the remote streaming. Remote streaming should be allowed for free - if you are not a subscriber. The relay should just be a paid service, which makes sense. But if it’s a direct connection to my server, it should be free.
That being said, I understand how Plex may have built some technical debt into this relay system. It might be hard for them to decouple the relay from the remote streaming. What they should have done is:
We are removing the relay service as a free service, but you can still do remote streaming with a direct connection.
And they should have built their architecture in a way that’s easy to decouple the two services.
Thanks for that - I wasn’t aware of the relay service, but completely agree that this is what they should be charging for and not the remote play feature in its entirety. I’ll probably drag it out for a while by refusing to update the app and server… Might be able to make it work with Tailscale as others have suggested.
In the past I’ve paid for a month or two when I wanted to download to my devices remotely (and I think that’s the singular feature that I’ve ever cared about in the Plex pass). But to take features away and then try and charge me for them is a bridge too far, I can’t support that bad behavior.
I paid for the lifetime membership ~6 years ago so I’m going to stick with it. Plus I just use it for my own home. It’s not like I’m serving a bunch of other clients. But I’ll switch to Jellyfin if the lifetime membership ever gets taken away.
I considered it when they warned about the increase and offered it at $75, but I just didn’t have the money to spend back then. Felt pretty stupid for not doing it, but I don’t even know what paid features they offer, and I’m clearly not missing them.
99% of my usage is at home as well, so this is unlikely to affect me - until that random 1% anyhow.
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I’m surprised by the resistance to Jellyfin in this thread. If you are using Plex, you’re already savvy enough to use bittorrent and probably the *arrs. If you can configure that stuff, Jellyfin is absolutely something you can handle. If you like Docker, there’s good projects out there. If you’re like me and you don’t understand Docker, use Swizzin community edition. If you can install Ubuntu or Debian, and run the Swizzin script, you’re in business.
The big thing for me with plex is user management. I am absolutely knowledgeable enough to set up jellyfin, but i dont want to deal with user management. Plex makes it easy, i tell them to make their own account and i just share my library. i dont have to reset passwords, they can do that themselves. However, it’s getting to the point where i will probably just switch to jellyfin and deal with it because of how bad plex is getting.
I’m only sharing access with a few friends and family, so I don’t find it cumbersome. Usually I make their account using the Jellyfin app on my phone. I do sympathize with not wanting to do support, which is the main reason I don’t even ask for help with the hosting costs. I don’t want to feel any obligation.
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I think I represent a huge portion of Plex users; I am tech savvy enough to follow a simple walkthrough on YouTube to get my server setup. But the arrs, jellyfin, and docker both look like graduate level chemistry to me.
Plex has been around for ages and they have put money into making things easier for users like me to understand with events such as Pro Week and directly paying content creators to dumb things down for me.
It’s quite easy without docker to get lots of it running with a dietpi install. Runs on rpi and alike, but also on any “normal” old low end pc. Just select jellyfin, arrs, … It handles it all for you, no need to learn Docker (I know people will argue about the advantages of docker, which are valid points, but ease of installation is more important to many people). The only difficulty remains the streaming outside your own LAN (because it’s risky). VPN, tailscale, … there’s options but it always keeps on feeling risky to open up outside LAN. Local setup for jellyfin can be really really easy tho, if it’s just for yourself and you mostly watch at home anyway… And in some jellyfin compatible app like Finamp and Streamyfin you can just download a few music albums, episodes or movies to your phone before you travel…
I’ve got to admit that I’ve never used Plex (I’m a cantankerous open software fanatic), but how do you get your media on there? You’re hosting your own server so presumably you’re downloading the media somehow. Are you doing it manually? If so, you can do the same with Jellyfin. Is it automated with some tool built into Plex?
I’m ripping it with makemkv, actually. I have a fairly large blu ray collection that is slowly going onto my DAS.
Me too. Docker isn’t hard if you use a compose file. It’s easy to read syntax.
Linux server.io has great documentation for their images.
I have Jellyfin and Plex running from the same virtual machine pointing at the same media. If it wasn’t for the one crappy TV I have in my house with no Jellyfin client, Plex would be gone.
Docker isn’t hard if you use a compose file. It’s easy to read syntax.
This is giving me “yaml isn’t hard to use if you use a compose file!” It is, actually. It’s easy for you because you understand the technology. The vast majority of people do not.
Of course. But if you managed to setup Plex then you’ve already shown you have willing to learn…
This is the best ad campaign Jellyfin could have asked for.
Well, looks like my decision to stick with Kodi and never bother with Plex is about to pay dividends.
Kodi and Plex do different things, both of them organize your media and give you a pretty interface to access it, but Kodi is a program running locally and Plex is a webservice that you can access remotely. Jellyfin is the open source program that does the same thing as Plex, i.e. a media server manager that can be accessed remotely through a web interface.
I used Kodi for years (back before and during the XMBC - > Kodi shift) before moving to Plex, it was great (a pain for a good config, but once your clients have remote access and use a shared database its insane how good it can be) but Plex was touted for so long I figured I’d give it a try when I saw a good sale. I’ve been using it for the past 8 years or so but may go back to Kodi or Jellyfin.
NAS + Tailscale + Kodi is the easiest to setup for me. Works really good.
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They think they have enough users locked in to just pay over setting up another server. They might.
Lol jellyfin
Why do people use this when Jellyfin exists?
I took a dive into linux and jellyfin and im too stupid for it.
I already pay for plex pass but I’m going to start looking into jelly fin out of principle. I will not support the enshitification of a service I use and this is how it starts. Soon they will have tiered subscriptions and then the cheap one will be taken away and the cheapest paid one will be stuffed with ads then all tiers will be stuffed with ads then they will jack up prices again or charge more for sharing with family or block it all together to force your family to get their own sub and the circle of enshitification will be complete.
Judging by the rest of the thread I’m going to get downvoted for this, but what the hell:
I’m sure I’ll switch to Jellyfin eventually but I tried it out a few weeks ago to see what all the hype was about and it just… wasn’t great. It was difficult to setup, with way too many overly-complicated settings, and then it refused to play one of the two test files I tried. Like it or not there’s a reason that Plex is the dominant player in the game, and a large part of that reason is that it verges on plug-and-play for simplicity of both setup and use.
Yes, it sucks that they’re removing remote streaming for free users, but I imagine there’s a significant chunk of users who don’t know or care how to properly open their server up to the world and are relying on the Plex proxies for their streams (which happens entirely in the background), and those aren’t going to be cheap to run. Maybe putting them behind a paywall will provide the resources to make them faster.
I did buy a lifetime pass last time they announced a price hike; it’s honestly paid for itself many times over, and I’ve been encouraging other users I know to do the same before this next one, because yes, it is a significant hike this time around. That said, while I wouldn’t pay monthly for it, I do still feel like the lifetime pass is tremendous value for such a polished product. It’s a shame they’ve had to do it at all, but I don’t begrudge them for it.
That’s how I’m feeling about all these “TImE FoR evErYoNE tO swITCh To JElLyfiN” comments. You mean the program that also doesn’t support this functionality out of the box?
Exactly. I’d love to use jellyfin, but it’s just not feasible
I have a lifetime Plex account but have not used it in two years. I use Jellyfin. Obviously opinions vary.
At home, I have FireTV and Roku devices. I stream remotely to iPhones and tablets using Twingate.
I imagine there’s a significant chunk of users who don’t know or care how to properly open their server up to the world and are relying on the Plex proxies
That seems like the obvious place to put a subscription that won’t get people upset. Or maybe it’s in the presentation.
When HomeAssistant started a subscription, they renewed their commitment to opensource, added new remote features with obvious costs under subscription while still letting you do it yourself, plus made it clear this funded continued opensource development. I happily pay this and haven’t been disappointed. Did Plex fumble a similar opportunity?
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This is what people don’t realize. If you want something good, you have to pay people for their time and talent. Free products that are free because of ideology are just exploitation with extra steps.
That’s a good reason for people to take the money they would have spent buying a proprietary solution and instead donate that money to an open source project. For me it’s not always about the cost, but what I get out of it. I’d rather the money go to the community and better it.
The problem is people don’t put their money where their mouth is. Even less in the scale needed to produce a product of the quality te average person expects. You see this again and again. It’s very nice to think it works, but it doesn’t. A random guy saying “actchually I donated 1 Monero” doesn’t mean a project is financially sustainable.
You’re right. Unfortunately, open-source has proven time and time again to be unsustainable and burn maintainers out
