Is Linux viable as a mobile os yet?
Christ. Some cheap phone for calls, SMS and banking. Some other device for literally everything else, perhaps I can get it with a headphone jack again.
This is the risk of “trusted computing” architectures. Who is governing the “trusted” part of that.
These cryptographic signatures are not as much of a death knell for Android as some would have you believe. The trick is to get a common code signing cert into your device, that is then used to sign any third party APK you want to run. You can avoid the Google tax this way. I assume that’s how most sideloading sites and apps are going to handle this.
The question is, how do you add that certificate? Is it easy and straight forward (with plenty of scary warnings), as a user? Or is it going to be a developer options deal? Or will I need root to add the cert?
I’m not sure what that answer is right now.
I just want to finish this post with a few words about trusted computing models. Plainly: Apple has been doing this for years … That’s why you download basically everything from an app store with Apple. Whether on your Mac OS device, your iPhone, iPad or whatever iDevice… Whether the devs need to sign it, or the app gets signed when it lands on the store, there’s a signature to ensure that the app hasn’t been tampered with and that Apple has given the app it’s security blessings, that it is safe to run. Microsoft and Google have both been climbing towards the same forever. Apple embedded their root of trust in their own proprietary TPM which has been included with every Mac, and iDevice for a long ass time. Google also has a TPM, the Titan security module, I believe that was introduced around pixel 3? Or 4?.. Microsoft made huge waves requiring it for Windows 11, and we all know what that discussion looks like. Apple requires a TPM (which they supply, so nobody noticed), Google has been adding a TPM and TPM functionality to their phones for years, and now Windows is the same. None of this is a bad thing. Trusted computing can eliminate much of the need for antivirus software, among other things. I digress. We’ve been going this way for a long time. Google is just more or less, doing what Apple has already done, and what Microsoft will very likely do very soon, making it a requirement. Battlefield 6 I think, was one of the first to require trusted computing on Windows and it will, for damned sure, not be the last that does. The only real hurdle here is managing what is trusted. So far, each vendor has kept the keys to their own kingdoms, but this is contrary to computing concepts. Like the Internet, it should be able to be done without needing trust from a specific provider. That’s how SSL works, that’s how the Internet works, that’s how trusted computing should work. The only thing that should be secret is the private signing keys. What Google, Apple, and Microsoft should be doing, is issuing intermediary keys that can sign code signing certs. So trusted institutions that create apps, like… Idk, valve as an example, can create a signature key for steam and sign Steam with it, so the trust goes from MS root to intermediary key for valve, to steam code signing key, and suddenly you have an app that’s trusted. Valve can then use their key to sign software on their store that may not have a coffee signing key of it’s own. This is just one example based on Windows. And above all of this, the user should be able to import a trusted code signing cert, or an intermediary cert signing cert, to their service as trusted.
Anyways, thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
Thanks for sharing all of that. I got to think a little bit about stuff that normally I would take for granted.
This is an android 16 feature, scheduled for sept 2026 “prerelease” and 2027 rollout. I expect/hope some phones will have a setting to disable “the security”. If not, there is great opportunty for high end hardware linux first phones, with good android emulation software.
I’ll go to iphone if it’s not able to be disabled. And I hate iphone.
Doesn’t iPhone already have pretty much the exact restrictions that are coming to Android?
I don’t have an iPhone to test, but google is showing mixed results so I can’t confirm.
However, Ive been on android for about 20 years, never owned an iPhone, always android. I’d ditch it just for blocking it as a point.
If side loading is actually allowed on iOS it’s exclusively because the past few years of lawsuits forced them to, and they keep trying to block it in new ways. Android can only be equally bad as Apple at worst, because Apple is as bad as they are legally allowed to in a given jurisdiction. So picking iOS over Android over that specific issue seems odd. They get brownie points for having blocked it from the start?
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So yeah we’ll do a decentralized Linux phone of sorts, if Google is going full 3rd Reich with Android we’ll move to a Linux based OS phone.
Simple as that.
Dude. On what hardware? My 1 years old AND 4 years old Samsung phones now lock their bootloader.
Random, fly by night China phones won’t have enough documentation or enough consistency in hardware to be a viable rally point for firmware devs, will they?
Don’t get me wrong. I will buy exactly that Linux Phone for my next device if it gives me three browsers and enough untracked fundamental functionality like calculators and contact lists.
But I’m genuinely worried there won’t be a hardware vendor in the game in my market (the land of Y’allQaeda) to sell me a compatible device that plays nice with the three mobile providers that still exist here.
What even is the reason for this? All this is going to accomplish is less Android market share.
Control. Where else are we going to go?
Because of people installing malware.
Its only recently that most Android phone owners even used the internet features, now you need apps just to park your car. There’s nothing stopping someone from having you install malware from a pirate QR code someone puts over the proper sticker.My guess is that it’s because people are using apps to get around Google’s revenue generating mechanisms, like apps to get YouTube without ads.
This was the main reason I have a spare android phone to install whatever I want on it and just factory reset if there’s an issue. Android / Google is really shooting itself in the foot cause there isn’t a point in owning an android after this imo
Similar story here. I’ve got apps that I need to use from developers that are not around anymore. My old phone only needs wifi and I’ve disabled/uninstalled everything else. The phones battery last like 7 days now.
Yeah I’m going graphene and if it’s too problematic may as well go apple. Freedom was the whole reason for choosing Android over Apple
When it comes to the current final frontier, Linux phones, what brands/models would be the best option? Or are you all really recommending iPhones?
You can’t sideload in Linux.
“All” you need to do is reflash your phone and reinstall Android/Chromium (soon to be renamed Android). Since you are not a certified supplier, the checking is not activated.
On Chromebooks the setting will be on, since they are used in schools, but since it has a terminal you can remove the block, it won’t be simple, probably terminal commands and changing configuration files, but it won’t be impossible.
Recommending iPhone because of freedom restrictions feels quite ironic
I’m looking at Fairphone 6. EU based, has an option called /e/os which is basically degoogled Android, and it also has full support for Ubuntu Touch (Linux phone).
Linux handheld with a 4g usb modem, doing calls over the internet. Just an idea, im not doing this, nor do i know how practical it actually is.
This is about Revanced, isn’t it? They failed to kill it via the YouTube backend so now it’s down to lock down the os and browsers as much as possible to keep feeding people the juicy ads.
This is about preparing for DMA and the likes in other countries.
I don’t see how the DMA would cause this other than Google preemptively setting themselves up for malicious compliance. The whole point of the DMA seems to be to give users choice not take it away.
Apple now allows sideloading of apps and Google is trying to get rid of sideloading.
What… the Fuck?
Apple now allows sideloading of apps
Apple allows as much sideloading as google wants to next near.
Yes, you can install from .iPa files, but you still need to pay 100€ a year to be able to sign the IPA files, otherwise you cant run them. as much as with googles new policy you now need to pay 25€ + your full name to get a signature, to sign the Apks with
Now we have to get EU on the case 😀
The EU is no longer an ally in such matters but a bad actor.
Why? Because of the chat control stuff?
Yea but Apple got sued into allowing that
I have LineageOS on my second phone, so the issue doesn’t apply to custom ROMs, as the developers assured me. On my main phone, however, I still have the stock ROM because it’s a new and expensive phone, and there are no custom ROMs for it yet, especially as it’s a MediaTek. If they try to block sideloading, it would be a good time to report it to the European Union.
They also stopped support that allowed for easier development of custom ROMs a couple weeks back. So it’s not good news for custom ROMs. Either someone needs to form Android for good, or Linux phones are our next best bet.
Back in 2019 when the leadership changed, they moved to be 100% about advertising, which is why Google started going browser fingerprint tracking. Invasive is the name of the game. Within 6 months of that, they’re also locking down their entire ecosystem like Apples does, specifically to squeeze more data out for advertising. This isn’t an action taken in a vacuum.
Just get root, and it wouldn’t be too difficult to bypass.
I already bypass many of Google’s stupid and arbitrary restrictions like their minimal SDK version requirement for side-loading apps and such with Magisk and Xposed modules.
Are you sure it won’t apply? As far as I understand, it’ll apply to all devices with Google services installed. Which includes most ROMs, as well as non-Google ROMs after you manually install gapps. Is my understanding off?
On GrapheneOS Play Services is sanboxed, so it cant affect other installation sources. It’s just one source of many.
I don’t have Google services, nor do I ever plan to install them. I’m perfectly happy with F-Droid, Aurora Store and NeoStore.
Soon aurora store may stop working. They could add some crap to the apks in the play store that checks whether the phone has google services. So either the devs put their apks somewhere available (like on fdroid, which most wont do), or theyll just put their binaries on the play store, which will just be a useless blob for those that dont have play services. Then we get another shitty cat an mouse game about spoofing play services, them catching up, on repeat.
If Google is going to lock down my device to the point where I can’t install apps without their permission, I might as well dump Android and go straight to Apple. I sacrificed my phone being good for the openness of the platform, but if Google loses that openness, why shouldn’t I go with Apple?
Because the cheapest new iPhone is $600 and you can get a cheap new android phone for around $100-$200 and get 6 years of security updates (Galaxy A16 for example)
If a smartphone is no longer a computer where you can install whatever you want, why bother investing so much money on a very locked-down phone? You can use the hundred of dollars you saved to spend on a small portable PC or something to run any software you want.
Yeah but my banks don’t support my small portable PC, nor does my mobile phone provider. If I wanted a small portable PC I’d get a small portable PC. What I want is a smartphone.
$600 is pocket change for a phone these days. And for that $600 you’re getting a flagship phone. You couldn’t pay me enough money to put up with a non-flagship. Been there, done that. They’re too slow and frustrating, and apps keep closing due to lack of RAM. Never again. I much rather spend $600-800 on a high-end device that’s a couple of generations old.
A $200 phone in 2015 is not the same as a $200 phone in 2025. I know from experience.
Those phones in 2015 were awful, but in 2025, they feel more like mid-range phones.
Edit: And $600 is pocket change? Sound like someone lived a privilaged life.
This 100%
I have used tracfone since 2012 and only bought phones from their store, sub $150. The budget phones today are so much better than the last 10 years.
I just can’t wrap my head around sinking that much into a phone when you replace it every year and it cost as much as a decent budget computer, but worse.
People who upgrade every year sell their old one at >50% the price.
So they don’t fork over €600, they only do €250 or so.
I make $19/hr and live paycheck to paycheck. I’m just being realistic about the current cell phone market.
Apple hardware has always been a generation ahead. Even when android/qualcom catches up, next generation is out already. The reason to avoid apple was it being a closed system money grab.
Apple hardware ahead of Android? I’ll have what you’re having!
a18pro beats M3 max in single core. Compared to 7840hs, it has 40% high single score geekbench 6, though 50% less multicore. Even beats ai395max at single score. Android competition catches up to even in gaming/gpu, but single core/responsiveness is still light years ahead. a19 next month, likely. M3 ultra has competitive aspects to xeon and epyc. Apple definitely has a lead on arm implementations.
Please show me a single benchmark with a flagship android beating a flagship iPhone.
The only answer is money at that point. I don’t know how much phones are these days, but aren’t iPhones like $1400, but Android is like $900?
I may be wrong though. Last time I bought a phone was 2018, and it was $600. Still using it.
You can get Android phones with reasonable specs around $200. No need for the so called “flagships”.
Oh, I was comparing flagships, because iphone doesn’t have a non-flagship to compare to.
I already tend to buy the expensive flagship models of phones. I buy unlocked and it lasts me ~5+ years, so I get the best phone I can get at the time and make it last, so money isn’t as much of an issue if I were to move to an iPhone.
> be me
> buy new phone, chose android cause I can install anything on it
> get free iphone from work
> sell iphone on ebay cause I can install anything I want on my android
> google doesnt want me to install anything I wantFuck me. I kept the wrong phone.
So in your world, a completely locked down phone is better than a phone that you can easily open up again by flashing a ROM or replacing Gservices for MicroG with adb + Magisk?
How does this affect “second-party” apps (i.e. apps you have created yourself)? Are you still allowed to go to Android studio, make an APK, transfer it to your own phone, and install that app? If no, this spells the death of experimental indie developers on Android.
Joke’s on them, my phone only cost $300
Same here, got a recent (so not completely new) Xiaomi 13T Pro. Very little crap on it and it has impressive specs like 16GB RAM, 1TB storage and a very good Leica camera.
I’d love putting Linux on it one day, the specs are almost as good as my main PC lol.
