Wayland is pretty darn great nowadays, hell I’m running KDE and got HDR on my desktop; haven’t had any odd goings on since 2023 (though nvidia is still meh)
When isn’t nvidia meh?
It’s funny. I used gnome for a long time, and after I fully switched to Debian, I didn’t have any problems with my nvidia card with gnome + wayland. But I switched to plasma recently, and it’s janky. I figured out my vsync issues, but it still runs a post when I wake it from sleep, which just defeats the purpose of sleep mode. I might as well shut it down every time I’m done using it like it’s 1997.
But I started using X + KDE, and most of my problems went away. Still takes forever to wake from sleep. But that’s it, really.
Hello, I shut down PC every time I’m done using it like it’s 1997
Yeah, in this day and age, why even keep the computer running if there aren’t any important tasks running? I’ve always shut my computers down at the end of the day, but mainly because I’m poor and watch my bills very closely… :P
25 W idle * 1 year = 219kWh
ANS * 0.21 EUR/kWh = 45.99 EUR
I’d say that’s still a significant amount, even if you subtract from that amount the time you use the computer.
Years ago Nvidia employed a developer who fixed incompatibilities with their proprietary driver. He looked at what caused the issue and even had the driver fixed when Plasma exposed a driver bug.
Then Nvidia decided not to continue this and most KDE development now happens on hardware supported by FOSS drivers. Valve investing in KDE because of Steam Deck and its FOSS Radeon drivers underlined this trend.
I still haven’t been able to get wake from sleep working in distros with Wayland on my PC with an NVIDIA GPU. Tried in EndeavourOS and Garuda. It crashes trying to wake from sleep every time. I’ve tried everything in the arch wiki and search engine results like modifying config files and whatnot, no dice.
If you have setup a SWAP partition and hibernate, you can literally be faster with booting until continuing your work than wait until it finally wakes up from sleep properly 🤭
Don’t know why the screen is dark so long at wakeup, the mouse is rendering, somehow, in this state
Guess that is one thing we can blame on nvidia drivers 🤔
Same. Intel ran it great, but Nvidia is still pretty bad about running Wayland.
When the Steam Deck dropped I got an AMD GPU and it’s close.to Intel levels of seamless. That’s when I knew that Wayland is more than ready, Nvidia just still is not.
It really is pretty great nowadays. I always had both my laptops with fractional scaling and currently it all seems to work very well, no more weird renderings anywhere. And a greater thing, I had a external screen I left unused for multiple years because it needed to be used with a different fractional scaling than the laptop it was connected and now it just works and I can finally use it. It’s nice. I don’t have hdr needs but color management seems to be properly in place now and the bugs I had previously with it are also gone - like it did something weird on some video recording app and some weird stuff with that thing that changes the color of the screen when it’s night - it all just works now.
Works great… until you realize your GPU isn’t liked by Wayland when you have more than one monitor lol. Then Wayland is uninstalled and you go back to Xorg or XFCE.
It’s weird, had this issue with multiple monitors where wayland is either a glitchy refresh rate mess or just doesn’t recognize at all. Nvidia, amd, discrete or dedicated, native driver or oem driver: they’re all finicky under wayland when multiple monitors are used.
Do wayland devs actually use wayland themselves? Because multi-monitor setups are essential for coding.
They do and it does work correctly with some configurations, but there are some obvious problems with existing applications and gpu vendor drivers that make multi monitor support a bitch.
It will probably take another 5+ years (already been 17 years, 4 actually being used in desktop managers) for the devs to resolve.
Why uninstall? You can literally choose what to use at login prompt
I meant uninstall the window manager and install XFCE, was a poor choice of wording.
I just wish the lead person wasn’t you know… Only reason I’m on KDE.
I’m on sway for the same reason.
I just didn’t jive with sway for some reason. Also not letting me tell it that I understand it doesn’t support Nvidia just once got annoying really quickly lmao.
What do you folks on hyprland/sway use for your shell / toolbars / launcher? I tried nwg and it was… OK but pretty clunky. No shade for the developers of the project, all the settings pages and system config stuff is a TON to put together…
I don’t need something as full-featured as KDE or Gnome Settings. I’d prefer a well-polished minimalist launcher and task manager / toolbar over something that does everything
Just grab some prebuilt .config files. I just switched from maintaining my own “custom” set to the endeavorOS community repo for sway, and it’s seriously amazing. Not too much, but has everything I need working right out the box.
I’m using fuzzel as my launcher. No complaints so far
Hyprland with Waybar. Kitty for shell, and keybindings for launching. I may add a launcher down the road but I kinda love custom keybindings for launching my apps.
On hyprland, I use hyprpanel for a bar, rofi for launcher. Check out AGS/Astal for some crazy powerful widgets
I’m ootl, whats wrong with the lead person?
Adamant transphobe, but in that insidious way where they justify letting people get bullied in the Discord because their “not on anyone’s side and value different opinions”. A trans person in the Discord server was targeted by another member and intentionally misgendered repeatedly. They spent multiple blogs basically saying “people are snowflakes, we dont want an echo chamber”. Like wtf. (IIRC, working off my memory since I read about it like 2 months ago)
Why not Sway?
I absolutely love sway. It’s everything I need, and nothing I don’t. Just works for me
just don’t vibe with it tbh. Can’t explain in an objective way why though.
Fair enough
I don’t know what happnend but you’re using an open source program not his dick yk, and if you think that way then you shouldn’t be using a single thing in your life, fucking morons
yeah that take makes sense coming from someone on a .ml instance.
Lmao now you people discriminate about instances, fucking removed
While hyprland is really nice, it is made by a transphobe and a large part of the community is also. Switch to something else there are a lot of good alternatives. Kind of a protest against him.
I misread this as “made me a transphobe”
the animations man… they really just made me hate those people
Rounded corners and no border on floating windows has inspired many hate crimes
if I don’t pay the dev, and dont interact with the community, whats wrong with hyprland?
[…] [Hyprland] is made by a transphobe and a large part of the community is also […]
Do you have a source?
Get the fuck out of here centrist
Kant was racist so lets all ignore his works too?
Heidegger was a literal Nazi but we still still use his work because Being and Time is so important.
They are called compositors, but they are not as good as X WMs IMO. I’m keeping an eye on them tho.
It still bothers me how toxic the hyprland devs behaved last year. Keeping an eye on that too 😉
compositors, but they are not as good as X WMs
Interesting. I’m curious about what seems to be missing in your use case?
Depends things like shaped window borders for theming, title bars in hyprland, effects, pagers, some automation options, etc…
What I generally miss in Wayland is better mouse automation support, Java support, the ability to have multiple mouse cursors and assign them to different input devices.
Depends things like shaped window borders for theming, title bars
All possible. X had some age-old protocol enabling oval and whatnot windows and noone ever used it, whether you use CSD or SSD you can paint with alpha and say “nope, that mouse click wasn’t for me”. So even if logically all windows are rectangular because that makes sense because textures are rectangular and you really don’t want to complicate things at that level, UX-wise you can have fractal borders if you really want.
in hyprland,
…anything “in hyperland” is a hyperland problem, not a wayland problem.
effects, pagers, some automation options, etc…
All Things compositors can do.
What I generally miss in Wayland is better mouse automation support,
Faking input devices is compositor responsibility, for obvious security reasons.
Java support,
As if Java and X work well together.
the ability to have multiple mouse cursors and assign them to different input devices.
Weston does this, protocols support it, I don’t think it’s much of a priority for other compositors. The most common multiple pointing device configuration is to have both devices control one pointer. My tablet works and the tip is properly analogue that’s plenty of functionality for me (dunno if tilt works by now, blender doesn’t use it anyways).
So this is my big issue with Wayland - nothing is a ”Wayland problem”. Everything lands on the compositors. Features that existed for the past few decades in X and are deeply integrated into the ecosystem were relegated to second class citizens or just ignored. (Can we share our screens with Zoom yet?)
I won’t argue that X is flawless or should live forever. X should die. However, X actually solved problems instead of just providing a bunch of (IMHO) half baked ”protocols” so that someone else can solve the problem. From the perspective of a user or application developer, that’s just hot potatoes being passed around. And there have been plenty of hot potatoes the past decade.
Thank you for reading my yearly Wayland rant. I’ll now disappear into my XMonad-fueled bliss, fully software rendered.
Everything lands on the compositors. Features that existed for the past few decades in X and are deeply integrated into the ecosystem were relegated to second class citizens or just ignored
There were ten years that the desktop environment people wasted, where all those interfaces could have been created but they only started in earnest once the x.org devs put their foot down and said “nope we’re serious x.org is unmaintainable we’re not doing this any more”.
And no, X didn’t solve any of those problems – what it did was provide completely unrestricted access to everything to anyone and it took multiple decades before different clients would stop fighting each other over control over the desktop. That clusterfuck was one of the things that x.org devs wanted to avoid, but they, not being DE devs, also didn’t know what DE people actually needed. So they asked. And, as said, didn’t get an answer.
Sure, I’ll do another mini-rant.
I have no idea what real world threat model and threat actor the Wayland people are going for. A threat actor with code execution on a Linux desktop immediately has access to the filesystem and can do whatever anyway, in practice (see also: Steam deleting home directories). Privilege Escalation is a thing and namespaces in Linux are kinda meh. Run your untrusted code in an ephemeral VM.
My point is just that once you have a threat actor running code on your system, it’s game over regardless of whatever your desktop tries to do. (I’ll run with the Maginot Line comparison here, but Wayland is more like a locked door without walls.)
The security issues with X were the X-Forwarding-stuff being kinda bad, not the ”full access to everything”-stuff. I want my applications to access my things, otherwise I wouldn’t run the application.
If your threat model seriously needs sandboxing, you’ll wanna go the Qubes-route. Anyways, Arcan seems to have a more reasonable threat model than Wayland if you wanna go that route.
Thanks for reading my yearly mini rant on why Wayland’s security don’t matter and only gets in the way of the user and application developer.
A threat actor with code execution on a Linux desktop immediately has access to the filesystem and can do whatever anyway, in practice
No.
You misunderstood totally. I’m not saying it’s not possible. There isn’t a compositor making use of those things, but many X WMs that do.
There’s no X WMs that fake input devices, or organise global hotkeys, or a thousand other things people always quote when bashing wayland. You can get bog-standard X applications which do that because X has literally no security model, but the feature set between e.g. KDE on X and KDE on wayland is virtually identical.
It’s like you want to misunderstand me. I’m not bashing Wayland. That part of my comment isn’t about WMs and compositors. It’s about how hard it is to make macro that does a few clicks and types a few keys into an app etc… It’s still very hard in Wayland. I’m sure it will get better some day, but we’re not there yet.
Have a look here. Not sure how they do it the proper way would be to run the desktop environment as a subcompositor of autokey.
Meanwhile, though, do try CLI automation. It’s the Unix way.
If dmenu was made by a nazi I wouldn’t give a shit because its just dmenu but hyprland is so clearly made by a pack of
/g/zoomers who want their desktops to look like 1337 haXors without any access to the low level systems. Its all discord script kiddie hype-beasts.Its a tiling window manager made by people who never used a tiling window manager on X11. I know I’m sounding like an elitist boomer but this shit really violates some core Unix principals of making small composable utilities that empower the user. RiverWM or Sway keep to this philosophy.
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What do vtubers have to do with this?
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Whats your opinion on qtile?
Qtile is great because its a program-your-own WM. I think awesomewm is the same and offers Wayland support now.
I was building a kiosk for my home assistant with my Raspberry Pi. It was very complicated to set up a cage compositor, set up XWayland, setup Chromium Wayland flags, libinput rules, and the touchscreen mapping still doesn’t work… am I missing something here? For X11 everything just works right out of the box…
… am I missing something here?
X11.
Sounds like you’re missing a DE
I want a lightweight kiosk without any DE, and I think a cage would work just fine. Maybe I should use Sway to open a single maximum window instead? It seems more bloated than using
xinitwith a Chromium window, which defeats the entire purpose…I know Valves game scope is a micro compositor made to display one window (intended for a game). But I don’t know if it’s applicable for you.
Tried using Wayland recently, but alas, my Nvidia GPU holds me back once again.
I’ve been on bazzite for awhile with a 3090 and it runs pretty great.
Maybe give that a shot if possible
My laptop has a 3050 in it running Garuda Linux under Wayland and its been working well without any fuss. I tried bazzite but the drivers put me on the struggle bus… It never would leave “hybrid mode” and trying to play a game just wouldn’t touch the dgpu so performance would be igpu trash mode.
I’d love to know what is different between garuda and bazzite to try to get bazzite to work as I did really like it, but it eluded me. I guess my point is that you might have better luck trying a different distro unfortunately. It feels like there are enough variables that what works for me may not for you and vice versa.
On which kernel version and which driver and which vulkan package?
Kernel: 5.15.0-130-generic Nvidia driver: 550.142 Idk how to check for vulkan package
Also I have a 2080 super
I see, you need to update those, at least kernel 6.1 and I think nvidia is 570 by now
Seeing your kernel, I guess you are in a debian based (apt is used) system, I am not familiar with this package manager, but google how to find installed packages using apt, there you should find it.
2080 works pretty good on wayland on an up to date Linux machine
I’ll consider upgrading to Ubuntu 24.04 then. I’m on 22.04 now
That is a great idea 😄
Old ≠ bad
Personally I don’t need fancy. I need stability. If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it, and I haven’t experienced issues with Xorg… But then again, I ditched Ubuntu in 2012 because they switched to that awful search bar launcher doohickey, so I might be a dinosaur in this regard.
If it ain’t broken
But it is…
I still have (or rather had) some screen-tearing somewhere. I very much have annihilated that issue with settings in X11 (though some application somewhere still has issues, be it the video player). And it just feels clunky non the less.
Although I’m currently not using Hyprland, it really feels nice to use, really flowy. I’m currently testing COSMIC (which is reasonably still in alpha, as I got issues with *** nvidia, like suspend sometimes hangs the computer).
That said, I think it’s still ok to wait until the whole ecosystem is well supported in wayland, and *** nvidia finally got their wayland shit together.
If it ain’t broken
But it is…
OK, let me add to that: if it works for me I ain’t doing anything.
If Xorg doesn’t work for your use case, then of course you should deal with it.
But I don’t game, the wildest graphical stuff I do is watching a video while running a terminal emulator, and I hate changes to my work flow.
Hyprland is transphobic
What? How is software transphobic
Because people are still Reddit-brained, have no capacity for nuance and thrive on outrage like an addict.
For the addicts with their finger smashing the downvote button:
Elon Musk is an idiot. But that doesn’t mean that a Tesla Model S is an idiot.
A Hyprland developer could be transphobic, members who comment in the community could be transphobic but that doesn’t make the software transphobic.
Software doesn’t have political opinions.
If you want to not be hypocritical and examine all products with the same ridiculous level of scrutiny then you’re probably using electronic components in your house, car, smartphone and PC that were sourced using slave labor, child labor or built by countries that engage in human rights abuse.
The electricity used to allow you to uncritically attack people online was generated by means which contribute to climate change which will kill or displace hundreds of millions of people.
The language you’re using is primarily used by cultures who have historically engaged in colonialism, piracy, slavery, religious oppression, ethnic cleansing and wars of aggression.
So, unless you’re willing to sit in a forest and never communicate with another person, you’re going to be using technology which, if you pedantically dig deep enough, you can find some “problematic” behaviors associated with.
Or, you could not act ignorant in online spaces. That’s also an option.
How is a tiling wm transphobic? Seriously get a life.
Hyprland bloated? Huh?
Compared to like iceWM maybe???
Coming from i3, all these fancy animations are technically not needed.
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Ok, but I need manual control over how the tiles get arranged and shaped.
And I need to be able to stack windows.
Hyprland is pretty and declarative and has so many cool extensions that work really well and help to tie the experience together, but sway is more functional.
If hyprland offered the same ability to manually control the tile tree that sway offers, I’d use it.
For now I’m shoehorning the hyprland extensions like hyprwall and hyprlock onto sway.
Wayland breaks VMware and steam for me. Am I stupid?
both are still not native and need the XWayland compatibility layer, which is usually (but might be turned off) compiled into your Wayland desktop manager
I’m using Mint. Not sure if that helps anything. I can double check that compatibility layer
Mint is a Linux distribution, not a window manager. These are KDE Plasma, Gnome, Cinnamon, Sway, labwc, XFCE, etc.
Oooh derp, had I taken a second to think about my response I would have mentioned that. I’m using cinnamon default. Wayland experimental is my only other option.
In addition to what Neonred wrote: Steam Deck uses Wayland by default and its Steam is configured to run just fine on Wayland, even if it’s possibly using XWayland behind the scenes.
Fully customised Hyprland use half as much ram as Plasma, but I still prefer Plasma because I can’t get used to WM
How much RAM does it use and how does this compare to running a web browser with a few open tabs?
Seriously, unless some memory leak makes a DE consume 10 gigs of RAM, nobody will notice because DE’s RAM use is dwarfed by what end user applications use. 10 years ago I got a notebook for 600 Euro with a 16 GB RAM upgrade for an additional 100 Euro.
Performance differences are either rendering speed or perceived performance because of animation speed. With the exception of embedded hardware, RAM use for desktops is irrelevant since quite some time (and on such constrained hardware you can’t properly browse the web anyway).
I’d love to try a tiling wm but KDE and mate are the only things i can get to look the way i like, and i can’t find anyone else that made a glossy frutiger aero hyprland rice
im waiting on my distro probably or i could be doing just fine on experimental Wayland
What’s experimental Wayland?
Probably some desktop that only now started to adopt Wayland in an experimental state because the maintainers thought that playing “wait and see” for way too many years was a great idea.
