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What a disappointing series that was.
The cycle goes: Star Wars is for kids and when they grow up they’re going to hate the Star Wars their kids are watching. I’m old enough to have seen the entire cycle with the prequels.
And btw, The best trilogy is Rogue One, Empire Strikes Back, and The Last Jedi.
Who ever hated the original films?
More than I realized. As a kid, my favorite of the original trilogy was ROTJ. It had everything - an opening where the heroes got vengeance on a big slug, there was a dramatic-looking Death Star, speeder bikes, and force lightning.
My father told me (years later), how much some folks hated it for some of the same things. Rehashing the Death Star, Han accidentally killing Boba Fett (this hyped up bounty hunter that in the previous movie was clever and even mouthed off to Vader himself), Ewoks being cuddly teddy bears with janky traps, Leia being yet another Skywalker out of nowhere…basically, a lot of the same goofy shit people railed on George for in the prequels (myself included: since these conversations with my dad came up because I was a teenager complaining about Jar Jar, Yoda ping ponging around, etc.).
Later I saw that plenty of folks complained about ESB being moodier, the “No, I am your father” being a twist out of nowhere and dramatically undermining Obi-Wan’s character by his being dishonest. Some of the same “canon-breaking” retcons that we all complain about today.
Granted…I still love ROTJ despite its flaws, and while I never enjoyed the prequels as much as a lot of folks, I find them endearing in an odd kind of way. The Sequel Trilogy less so, but there’s a few bright spots.
Basically, I wonder what the reception of the movies would have been if we had the internet then, and especially if we had engagement-based algorithms driving things, which does such a great job of amplifying hate.
Yeah RotJ was Lucas made Star Wars into a franchise devoted to toy sales. Bringing in other writers and directors to take over was the smart move, it’s what he did for ESB and it resulted in a great movie. But because of his petty spat with the Director’s Guild, he decided to get a non-union directo for RotJ but basically directed it himself.
Then he announced the Prequel Trilogy on the day he got a good toy deal with Hasbro.
I feel like George Lucas felt like he compromised with the studios too much on the first one, didn’t think it would be a success. But it ended up being the most successful movie ever, and he didn’t understand why. So he didn’t really give a shit about it and just used it to make money, and didn’t make any real effort on the movies after the first one.
No movie ruined the themes of Star Wars as much as ESB. Every important person being a Skywalker or a Palpatine turns Luke into plot royalty, and takes away his specialness as an everyman hero.
“I want to learn the ways of the force and become a Jedi like my father”
It was established in the first one that Luke’s father was a powerful Jedi. I guess you didn’t pay attention.
And yeah all of those important characters like Obi Wan Skywalker, Yoda Skywalker, Han Palpatine, Finn Palpatine, Poe Skywalker, LOL.
“I want to learn the ways of the force and become a Jedi like my father”
At the end of Episode 4, Luke’s father is an un-named Jedi, part of a whole lost order of Jedi. That gives Luke a special heritage, but not a unique heritage, as he has later.
I feel like every film after IV has Disney-princessed the Skywalker family a bit further, including episodes V and VI.
Luke’s father in 4 wasn’t important to the plot. He wasn’t even named. If a character in a movie doesn’t get a name, they’re not important. Luke’s father had the kind of abstract importance that matters to characters but not to the audience.
I think you’re not all the familiar with the movie. The Light Saber Obi Wan gives Luke is stated to be his father’s. Obi Wan talks about Luke’s father. Luke mentions wanting to be like his Father in a pivotal moment.
In movies you don’t devote a scene to discussing a character’s father and you don’t mention the character’s father in a pivotal scene if the character’s father isn’t important. It’s also mentioned that Luke’s father was a great pilot and later we see Luke piloting a fighter.
Hate might be too strong of a word but I remember how 12-year-old-me found them hard to watch because their special effects looked dated in comparison to the prequels’.
I personally find the effects from the original trilogy easier to still watch today than the effects in the prequels.
Star Wars is a long cycle of really really really cool concepts and really really really shit execution of putting those concepts on screen. People have disliked pretty much every iteration of SW for some reason or another, and it’s usually defensible. Boils down to suspension of disbelief and ‘to each their own’
I grew up kinda between the originals and prequels, and often found the originals were paced too slow and the whole ewok thing stood out as stupid as fuck even to my 8-ish year old brain; but there was more to like than dislike, so I was fan overall.
Then the prequels come out. Jar Jar used to be what killed it for me, but then the ‘darth’ Jar Jar fan theory came out, and if you watch his character through that lens it’s not quite as bad. I’m 100% sold on that being the original intent with Jar Jar, but then they backed off after so many people fucking hated him in Ep1, and just left him alone as a bumbling idiot and nothing more.
Then the sequels came out and the writing was absolute shit. SW followed that trend for a while, kinda felt like the franchise was dead in the water, existing only as a cash grab… until Rogue One came out, and then Andor, which are both fucking masterpieces.
It used to be movies were movies and not treated like political causes. So saying something like “I though the Leia and Han scenes in the early parts of ESB were a little awkward” (my actual opinion) didn’t mean you were choosing to take a side against people that like ESB. I actually love ESB, but yeah there were some scenes are a bit awkward, and that’s fine, because it’s an action adventure move, so who cares?
So there was a distinction between criticizing parts of a movie and hating a movie. But now in the social media age, everything is either the best thing ever or the worst thing ever, and you group up with people with the same opinion as you.
Star Wars being a hugely popular thing attracts all kinds of algorithm brained people so there’s endless content about whatever thing being the best/worst thing ever about everything in Star Wars.
But in the end they’re just action adventure movies some are really good, some are terrible, and most of it is in between.
George Lucas is a genius merchandiser and fun-maker, and things like “cohesion” and “plot” are left for everyone else to figure out.
He was good at overarching plots which is why the prequels are solid in that regard, they got planned in advance. He falters when it comes to smaller plot moments that drive the characters and the audience to follow the overarching plot, the stunted dialog etc.
There’s quite a lot of reviews and comments from the time hating ESB (a muppet as a spiritual guide? Contrived twist!) and RotJ (too cheesy! Just an excuse to sell toys!).
I mean RotJ was an excuse to sell toys.
Yoda being a little green weirdo was meant to convey that anyone can be a Jedi. Just don’t tell TLJ fans… they think that’s something that wasn’t a thing in Star Wars before Rian Johnson came up with it from his own brilliant and creative mind.
“Jaws was never my scene and i don’t like star wars”
~ Freddie Mercury
On social media you can find somebody who hates anything… even kittens, especially the fluffy ones.
I do, they are fucking shit
I don’t like them, even though I’ve tried to like them by watching them multiple times.
Having said that, I honestly think rouge one is a solid movie, and ironically that’s the least star wars movie from all the series.
I don’t hate them, but I don’t think they are all that great tbh.
The difference between the prequels and the sequels is that while a bit cheesy and having some cringe/dogshit dialogue in places the prequels have a solid storyline an arc.
The sequels are just shit with only the Last Jedi trying to do anything, then when they made episode 9 they tried to backpedal and made a completely unwatchable piece of shit that makes no sense
Fight choreography for the prequels saves it a lot.
I also argue the world building alone makes them worth it. While the dialogue and plot had some issues, all the new worlds/aliens/the actual sith/etc. heralded in a new age for star wars.
The world in the sequel trilogy is so small in comparison to either of the other trilogys.
Revenge of the Sith has the best and most gratuitous action in the entire mainline series.
So true!
And I’ll also grant that the emperor’s guard fight and the force projection fight both count to redeem the sequels, a bit.
No. The emperor’s guard fight was absolute garbage.
Wait you turn to attack the protagonist. A nice orderly line for one attack and one counter.
Then there was the guy who straight up dropped his weapon before his turn, but pretended he didn’t.
What did Last Jedi actually do?
I always feel like I saw a different movie than everyone else, both the people that liked it and the people that disliked it. What I saw was the plotlines of both ESB and ROTJ thrown into a blender, with the entire point of those plotlines removed. There was absolutely nothing in that movie that was original. It was the most misogynistic movie in all of Star Wars, Rey doesn’t actually do anything, so I don’t know why the incels hate it. I felt like Disney gave in to those idiots and relegated Rey to a support role in that movie.
Sure they probably tried to cram in too much action adventure into RoS to compensate for the fact that TLJ had no meaningful action in it. Or do you think they backpedalled by making Rey the main character again? That was obviously the intent at the end of TFA, so it was TLJ that screwed that up by making women at best an afterthought and at worst an obstacle for the men to overcome. Most misogynistic portrayal of women in Star Wars, they had to do a big marketing campaign to convince everyone the women in the movie were strong before it was released. I guess it worked.
I hated TLJ. I grew up on the OG and saw the awful prequels in theatres despite knowing they were bad.
Too much bad writing. Too many plot holes. Too many monumental changes to how the universe works.
This, I’m willing to bet that the sequels will be just as beloved as the prequels suddenly were.
This implies that the bar has nowhere to go but down, except that we know good Star Wars is capable of being produced. Andor is fucking phenomenal, hands down the best thing to have ever been spit out by Disney since they acquired the IP. It’s not a sure bet that time will erase the stains that the sequel trilogy have created on the Star Wars brand. The prequel trilogy may not be perfect, but it felt more like Star Wars than the sequel trilogy ever did.
I’m just amazed people think Disney’s bad considered Lucas’ plan for the series was just remaking the prequels in 3D and doing Star Wars Detours
I really liked the movies JJ Abrams made and enjoyed Solo well enough.
To me the biggest problem is when they take themselves too seriously. Rogue One was trying to be Saving Private Ryan. Last Jedi was trying to be Citizen Kane. They seem like half-assed versions of better movies with the toys I played with as a kid in the mix so that prevents me from taking them seriously.
JJ Abrams made some fun movies that had some interesting things going on in the subtext. Which are the only ones besides the OT that did that.
I watched all 9 again recently with my kid. I am barely old enough to be in the “hate the prequels” gang. All 3 trilogies are good and bad. But after watching again 7, 8, 9 get way too much hate. They aren’t great either. The funny part is, most people hate them for the wrong reasons. Palpatine returning makes sense if you pay attention while watching 3.
There probably is a whole generation that will despise andor and rogue one.
Palatine coming back makes sense with some of the themes from 3, but it really undermines everything about the original trilogy. Essentially, thr sequels take away anything and everything Luke ever did.
I think it’s funny when people compare the sequels to the EU, when they share a lot of ideas.
I actually have to blink at the number of times people swear to me, without sarcasm or irony, that the EU would “NEVER BRING BACK PALPATINE!”
But like, it did though?
Palpatine being back is probably one of the least egregious and on the nose things for the story. Rey being a Palpatine? Several fakouts for losing characters (chewy and c3p0), and the whole of 9 being sidequests up to the flashy ending, those are choices that seem wack.
This, I don’t even know what the fuck is up with the magic dagger that tells you where a holocron is on a crashed space station that did not exist when the dagger was forged.
But there’s shit just as dumb in the prequels, such as Palpatine hiring Dooku who then hires Jango who using his assassin money hires an assassin who hires a droid who hires two bugs, ending in a chase where Jango runs into the old villain trap of “Kill the unwilling informant being coercised into talking and not the guy who actually wants to stop you?” that’s been around since Dick Tracey was writing parking tickets.
Rogue One was just boring. That was my only issue with it.
I liked the original Star Wars when I was like 10. I was older when the 2nd one came out and that was ok-ish. I was in my teens when the teddy bear Star Wars movie came out and I thought that was the dumbest fucking shit ever.
Still beat GoT marginally :)
Overall, definitely, but there are many things that came from it that I can’t deny loving and which have fully joined my idea of what Star Wars is. Several specific scenes, many characters like BB8, Fin, Kylo etc. (all which have major problems, but I still like them in their own way) and other random things. I was never a SW megafan, but I like the original movies enough to care, and I won’t deny enjoying many parts of the sequel-sequel series. But if I were given the choice of deciding if they’d have never had existed I’d have chosen that.
Also bringing you hits like: “Somehow, Palpatine returned…” and “Yousa thinking yousa people ganna die?”
Don’t forget, “if you don’t play Fortnite, you’re going to miss important exposition”.
I’m going to need some help with this one…
Long story short, before rise of Skywalker there was a Fortnite event that featured emperor Palpatine sending a message to the universe that he was back. It never happened in the movies. Rise of Skywalker’s opening scrolling text talks about this message from Palpatine. It was all just a crummy afterthought.
This means episode 9 really is “made X from fortnite real”. It’s a 2 hour addition to a fortnite event. It makes so much sense now! crazed laughter
I would have been more forgiving if it were just a part of the Fortnite event.
Shit gets cut from movies all the time. No reason to be upset.
Nobody’s upset here buddy.
I’m not your buddy, friend.
I’m not your friend, pal!
Me too.
Lol I forgot about that
I always wonder if it would have been awesome if the last Jedi ended with this instead of it popping up in Fortnite. Maybe it wouldn’t have felt like a stupid afterthought. Though clearly that’s what it was.
The entire “love story” between Anakin and Padme is barf worthy
“Somehow, Palpatine returned…” is a line that makes sense in context… He doesn’t know how Sidious came back.
Though keeping the contents of the message locked to a temporary Fortnite event was stupid.
The message was irrelevant, really. The only thing that mattered is Palpatine (ie. fascism) returned and they needed to fight against it.
“They fly now?”
They fucking always have. I hated this specific line so much, completely separate from other reasons to dislike 9.
Force healing and Disney kiss of resurrection
People’s reaction to “Somehow, Palpatine returned” is very telling.
Poe isn’t some internet wanker that’s going to endlessly debate over the causes of evil returning. Poe doesn’t need to know the reason evil returned, he just knows he has to oppose it. The exact method of evil returning is irrelevant to him. Why?
Because Poe Dameron is a fucking hero. Opposing evil is what he does. Debating irrelevant bullshit is for wankers.
Internet wankers get triggered by Poe not caring about how evil returned. Do you identify with internet wankers or do you identify with a guy that opposes evil without giving a shit about all of the wankery?
Tbf when you live in absolute 5th world poverty the clothes can vary minimally.
The Last Jedi was super cool though. It was truly the last Jedi i ever saw, well the last Star Wars content basically.
It was alright. A nice onramp back into the series, but mostly just a nostalgic beat for beat recreation of A New Hope for the 2010s. I remember the hype was real, but without a solid plan for the sequel trilogy neither movie in it is really worth ever revisiting. But there’s still some good Star Wars content. Rogue One and The Mandalorian are well worth watching. I haven’t seen Andor or Skeleton Crew, but people seem to like them.
I think you’ve mistaken the last jedi for the force awakens
Oh yeah you are correct 🤦
It was half of a good movie, which is more than can be said of the other two sequels.
Altogether the three equals less than one whole good film. They get close with the first two but the third is inexcusable. I counted: there are less than 5 shots that last for more than 15 seconds before a hard cut, even if it’s still in the same scene (I counted but also barely cared; I was just trying stay awake)
Christ, yeah. For such a big budget blockbuster, so much of it felt cheap and slapdash. It’s like someone was exposed to the Vince Gilligan discography and told “Do exactly the opposite of this”.
The cinematography was such a critical part of the OS and even the Prequels. Big splashy set pieces where everything had this history and character that felt like - if the camera was focused a in a slightly different direction - you could have filmed a completely separate movie off the extras alone. It’s so much of what made guys like Lucas and Spielberg a cut above. I can’t even blame Lucas for falling up his own asshole. He just needed someone to slap the coke out of his nose and reset to the original vision. A shame Carrie Fisher wasn’t allowed to script-doctor the other films (and jump in for a few cameos). After she stepped behind the camera, she was the hidden hand behind so many good movies (the OG Austin Powers was a big one).
Altogether the three equals less than one whole good film.
We felt that way about the prequels, too.
I’m looking forward to the eventual inevitable reboot, since it will be able to get through the same cool big ideas, without the meandering that the whole series suffers from.
It was a Star Wars movie for wet blankets. No fun allowed in this action adventure movie!
I had way more fun watching the last jedi over the other two, by a long mile.
How do you go into making a multi billion dollar franchise extending trilogy and have absolutely no plan for how your trilogy should play out?
Awful series of movies, watched them once and that was enough for me
Agreed and same. Only way people got me to watch it again was commentary folks ripping on it for being so bad.
I hate it when child versions of a character have the exact same hairstyle.
It’s cinematography shorthand to help the audience understand they’re the same person without exposition.
Otherwise half the theater would be whispering to the other half, “Who was that kid they kept showing earlier?”
Remember that half of the population is below 100 IQ and producers want them to buy tickets.
Remember that half of the population is below 100 IQ
That’s not a sensible reading of a bell curve. Roughly 70% of the population should be within one standard deviation of 100 IQ, putting them roughly on par with one another
you think most people know what a standard deviation is?
Since statistics isn’t a standard high school course, no.
But that’s got nothing to do with intelligence. It has to do with the typical mathematics rubric for the median member of the population.
Both of our statements are true. Yours focuses on the fact that most people are average ish.
If you want to fence about it though, my point is that most people are too dumb to not be force fed auch tropes.
Call me elitist if you’d like. I don’t dislike people like that. I just understand that producers need to cater to them.
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most people are too dumb to not be force fed auch tropes.
It has nothing to do with intelligence. We all eat from the trough of propaganda and we all have our biases. Even (perhaps especially) those of us who think we’re above it.
Call me elitist if you’d like.
I’d call you naive. At some point, we have the information we’re given and we can only make decisions based on that much.
Garbage in, garage out, no matter how clever you are.
I don’t know what conversation you’re trying to have but it has nothing to do with mine.
Or they show that short hair isn’t unusual for action-oriented characters, and simple beige clothes are super common in Star Wars.
💀
